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Post by happybunny on Mar 16, 2010 12:52:45 GMT
I understand the crossover from District to Central will be physically removed in the next few weeks. The possession is already in place and has been for a couple of weeks.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Mar 16, 2010 14:43:22 GMT
When was it last used in passenger service and by service stock? The Auto-Tube Rambler of course traversed it but I am sure that another tour has been over it since.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2010 14:52:11 GMT
I am not sure another tour has been over since the Auto tube Rambler, a very good day out that was. Also the A stock was delivered from commissioning at West Ruislip to Neasden for service by this crossover in the days before Ruislip siding was put in.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Mar 16, 2010 19:11:57 GMT
Why?
What's the point?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2010 19:20:04 GMT
Plain line is cheaper than pointwork.
And there is already a connection via Ruislip depot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2010 19:32:54 GMT
Maintenance. Although the points aren't used, they are still part of a maintenance program which costs money. So far everything except the points themselves have been removed. |
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Post by Oracle on Mar 16, 2010 22:01:12 GMT
Of course the 1967 Stock used on the Hainault Loop used the connection.
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 16, 2010 22:15:29 GMT
Of course the 1967 Stock used on the Hainault Loop used the connection. There was a duty late at night where a crew - motorman and guard used to travel to EB, join a 67 and it's operator and pilot it back to Hainault depot via that very same crossover at EB. Did it quite a few times...... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2010 18:44:36 GMT
Arrrrh! What's the point..... Points, Pway joke me thinks.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 17, 2010 21:13:40 GMT
I understand the crossover from District to Central will be physically removed in the next few weeks. The possession is already in place and has been for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure where you got that impression from, the Traffic Circular doesn't suggest so. The possession was in fact lifted during Sunday Night. There is a bit more to the removal of the crossover than 'plain line is cheaper'. When the crossover is finally removed, which is due to be at the end of May, there will not be plain line in it's place. Instead, the far end of the trailing crossover leaving Ealing Broadway (2104 points) will be in approximately the same position as the District Line crossover (2105 points) is today. This will enable a higher speed to be achieved leaving Platform 5. It is true that an alternative route via Ruislip exists, and as Lillie Bridge is unlikely to remain an Engineering Train Depot for much longer, the connection at Ealing will be almost completely useless. There were other factors associate with the decision to remove it, including the fact that it would need to be brought it up to scratch and then would need to be regularly used in order for it to not be taken out of commission again. At the moment the two lines are connected by the metalwork of the crossover and one signalling circuit between the two lines. I've spent the last few days checking the design to finally isolate the two lines and it isn't going to be for a few months yet... |
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Post by edb on Mar 18, 2010 21:41:29 GMT
I also note that it would work has been dopne to the sidings around there, all the insulators have been replaced for example...
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Post by ruislip on Mar 18, 2010 22:51:00 GMT
It is true that an alternative route via Ruislip exists, and as Lillie Bridge is unlikely to remain an Engineering Train Depot for much longer, the connection at Ealing will be almost completely useless. Does that mean that Ruislip will become the only Engineering depot for all of LUL? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 28, 2010 15:40:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 17:29:29 GMT
If it is nothing to do with the crossover, then why are both the District and Central lines shut to/from Ealing Broadway this weekend? (District from Turnham Green and Central from North Acton)
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Post by Tom on Apr 29, 2010 7:01:42 GMT
The points being renewed this weekend are on the Central line. However, the Engineer's trains are coming in via the district line and the crossover.
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 29, 2010 12:31:40 GMT
That'd be a good opportunity for a more modern version of DStock's photo  To whom do the points from the District to Central belong? Or is the answer both District and Central? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2010 18:40:44 GMT
They are numbered with in the Central signalling scheme but are fully interlocked in the District IMR and all signalling slotted both ways.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 30, 2010 21:06:13 GMT
Not any more they're not. All slotting was removed from the start of traffic on March 1st.
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Post by auxsetreq on May 5, 2010 15:56:06 GMT
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Post by Tom on May 5, 2010 19:55:29 GMT
Nice cats. Unfortunately by the time I had a chance to get any photos at the weekend it was dark...
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Post by DWS on May 5, 2010 20:16:38 GMT
When was this photo taken? Notice the track is Bullhead rail and points are 4ft EP motors. |
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Post by auxsetreq on May 6, 2010 15:17:43 GMT
When was this photo taken? Notice the track is Bullhead rail and points are 4ft EP motors. Yesterday - 5th of May 2010. The new points that went in over the bank holiday are in the distance............ Here's a vid of the same place but taken from the other direction sometime in 2005. tinypic.com/r/vg55qh/5 |
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Post by Oracle on May 6, 2010 18:32:57 GMT
I keep getting VIDEO NOT FOUND when having a looksie, or trying to!
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Post by mrfs42 on May 6, 2010 19:16:14 GMT
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Post by Oracle on May 6, 2010 21:34:46 GMT
Same result on MY PC anyway.
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Post by Tom on May 6, 2010 22:21:21 GMT
When was this photo taken? Notice the track is Bullhead rail and points are 4ft EP motors. They're 4ft Electro-hydraulic actually, but that's a bit academic as the ones closest to the camera (2105) are now unpowered and secured. The furthest set on the next crossover (2103) are a mixture of flat bottom stock and switch rails, with bullhead closures, wing rails and crossings. 2101 and 2102, nearest the platform, are fully flat bottom. |
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2010 12:50:49 GMT
The points being renewed this weekend are on the Central line. However, the Engineer's trains are coming in via the district line and the crossover. Oh the delicious ironey. The problem is though that its easier to keep it in a basic state of existance, than rip it out and decide that its wanted 5 years later again, and then try and do a business case and the red tape for it all. The North Ealing xo springs to mind. |
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Post by Oracle on May 14, 2010 13:34:18 GMT
The problem is though that its easier to keep it in a basic state of existance, than rip it out and decide that its wanted 5 years later again, and then try and do a business case and the red tape for it all. Amazing! I was reading these words and immediately thought about North Ealing, in advance of reading the last sentence! I heard discussion amongst colleagues in LURS at the time about the consequences of losing that crossover when it was scheduled. In other words, its handiness was appreciated at the time but it still went. |
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2010 20:06:12 GMT
The problem is such things whilst not necessary by any normal means become the final saving grace when things unexpected happen. The get out clause, if you will. To install it new would never be cost effective, yet to keep it for that one day might provide a dramatic difference.
Typical examples: that branch in north wales which they wont rebuild yet, but which if the trains terminating at its junction station had just been extended to run over it would have covered its running costs and even provided a very small income.
North Ealing xo
Any and all of the piccadilly and bakerloo crossovers in the central london area, with respectful reference to previously seen major incidents.
The Illfracombe branch in Devon
Ventnor on the IOW
All chesnuts that come up time and time again, and would prove cost effective had they remained yet cant pay for themselves back, sometimes hideously so, were they to be newly done.
LTs removal of opperational flexibility, as tubeprune has pointed out, is impossible to measure in financial terms until things go pear shaped (paraphrased that one a bit...).
Crossovers, route training, sidings, signals and signalling, block train formations, staff reduction....
I resent the fact that so many things have become compromises because of a pick n mix-off the shelf attitude, when smaller also standard off the shelf items can be bespokely combined to provide an infinitely more suitable solution.
Why could LUL not design for itself a standard form of ato for eventual application across its entire system, like the tripcock before, for example?
The engineers got smashed by the lawyers. Which is why law modules now form part of most engineering degrees. The engineers need to arm themselves to the teeth imho, and a rematch scheduled...
Anyway, back on topic, has its recent use sparked any interest internally as to its retention?
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Post by Tom on May 14, 2010 22:52:27 GMT
No - and it isn't likely to. Bearing in mind it hadn't been used for any signalled moves in years, there really isn't much point in keeping it.
There will continue to be a gap in the cable run to allow road-rail vehicles across in the future, but the days of crossing trains from one line to another are numbered...
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To whom do the points from the District to Central belong? Or is the answer both District and Central?
