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Post by citysig on Jan 22, 2010 23:42:55 GMT
And if we self regulate we have the controllers calling us up and asking if we have a problem. The unfortunate side-effect of train operators self-regulating is that sometimes you're not always aware of what may be ahead or behind you. Frustrating, yes, and no you probably can't win. You try to help out and get questioned for it. There are now many new regulating points (Turnham Green being one) as well as old (Plaistow for example) where we are supposed to stand for between 30 seconds and 2 minutes yet we are very rarely, if ever, held at any of them. Those odd 30 seconds and minutes soon add up and before you know it we're running 5 minutes early and struggling to loose it. Yes we have a few areas in the city where, because trains are likely to end up out of turn, the timing is removed from the signalling (via the computer) to keep everything moving. This way, a train running out of timetable order won't be delayed even more behind a right-time/early running train. By all means increase the running time in the peaks, but off peak it was never required - the only real problem is the central area in the peaks, and that was/is blamed on the junctions. It's not the junctions and never has been - the problem is the signalling system not having the capacity to cope. The signalling can cope with the flat junctions we have. The timetables were also mostly written so that maximum usage could be made of the junctions and conflicting moves were limited. However, a few seconds of late running means one train has either lost its booked path and has to wait, or it ends up delaying another pathed train while is passes over the junction. The new timetables have tried to solve some of this, by getting more trains to junctions on time and on path. Trouble is, the early running can have a negative effect and end up with conflicts between early trains. Think about this: we have the same running time from Tower Hill to Gloucester Road both peak and off peak. Off peak it's greens all the way. Peak time it's reds all the way. Off peak there are less trains about but come peak time there are more. Spot the obvious? Yes. It's the extra (right-time and early) trains that are in the way. At certain times of our evening peak we appear to have the same queue of trains eastbound from Baker Street to Aldgate that we always had. Stick to stick all the way. The difference is, each and every train on close inspection is right time. In the past, the one at the back of the queue would be 15 late by Aldgate. I think one of the biggest problems at present is that nobody has really ever experienced right time and early running. It is alien for us on LU to be holding here and there and waiting for time. It is also alien for our customers too. They are used to the "turn up and go" system (although sometimes it never turned up) and are not used to being held up en-route except during failure scenarios. Maybe we need to start emphasising some of the run times. Board a train at X at xx:xx and it will arrive at Y at yy:yy. It will also wait at intermediate stations en-route and depart at each of those on time. The national rail network has been doing it since day one almost. And I only have to compare my journey to London 20 years ago with the one today to see it now apparently takes 10 minutes longer (but at least now it normally arrives when they said it will). To be honest I don't think anyone envisaged it all running as well as it has. There have been shutdowns, but not to the extent that could have occured. But, as I already said, come the next revision, some of the padding will be removed. We will see what happens then.
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Post by citysig on Jan 22, 2010 23:51:05 GMT
As a footnote, it is a shame that some of this thread couldn't be moved into the "December Changes in Action" thread as it concerns that subject rather than the unfortunate incident on Tuesday. There are some I know who will be watching and looking for additions to that other thread. I daresay they will also be interested to see what's been said about Tuesday, and will find the last few posts, but it just would've been nice to draw a line under Tuesday and add feedback to the "Changes" thread. Hey ho.
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Post by 1938 on Jan 23, 2010 0:56:23 GMT
As a footnote, it is a shame that some of this thread couldn't be moved into the "December Changes in Action" thread as it concerns that subject rather than the unfortunate incident on Tuesday. There are some I know who will be watching and looking for additions to that other thread. I daresay they will also be interested to see what's been said about Tuesday, and will find the last few posts, but it just would've been nice to draw a line under Tuesday and add feedback to the "Changes" thread. Hey ho. Agreed, I am surprised not one of the forum staff has stepped in on this.
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Post by happybunny on Jan 23, 2010 5:07:04 GMT
Agreed, I am surprised not one of the forum staff has stepped in on this. Shhhhh they don't usually need encouragement
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 6:26:58 GMT
As a footnote, it is a shame that some of this thread couldn't be moved into the "December Changes in Action" thread as it concerns that subject rather than the unfortunate incident on Tuesday. There are some I know who will be watching and looking for additions to that other thread. I daresay they will also be interested to see what's been said about Tuesday, and will find the last few posts, but it just would've been nice to draw a line under Tuesday and add feedback to the "Changes" thread. Hey ho. Proboards still do not have the facilities to split threads, sorry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 11:19:57 GMT
Solution to all the early running problems. How about bringing back headway clocks............
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Post by citysig on Jan 23, 2010 11:25:39 GMT
Proboards still do not have the facilities to split threads, sorry. Which is the shame I meant, and not "shame the mods didn't do it."
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Jan 23, 2010 11:41:27 GMT
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Post by 1938 on Jan 23, 2010 19:47:40 GMT
Agreed, I am surprised not one of the forum staff has stepped in on this. Shhhhh they don't usually need encouragement Nice one. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by District Dave on Jan 23, 2010 20:10:22 GMT
Shhhhh they don't usually need encouragement Nice one. ;D ;D ;D GENTLEMEN - ENOUGH!Rest assured we have been keeping watch on this thread and whilst it has drifted from the OT it has grown 'naturally'. Pease give us some credit for knowing what's what and if you're unhappy with the way this forum is administered please feel free to leave and 'enjoy' yourselves elsewhere. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I'm becoming increasingly tired with the sniping at the staff here - if it were not for them this forum (as with most) would have deteriorated into anarchy long ago. Thankyou. Dave
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Post by citysig on Jan 23, 2010 20:57:24 GMT
As I made the initial comment, I would like to empasise again that I did mean my point to come across as a failing on proboards part, and merely meant it would be "nice" if the threads could be moved around. That said, it would probably end up confusing me at least, so maybe things are better as they are.
So, in an attempt to drag the feedback to the right place, I hope nobody minds that I have just posted in the other thread to try and channel your thoughts.
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Post by 1938 on Jan 23, 2010 22:29:26 GMT
GENTLEMEN - ENOUGH!Rest assured we have been keeping watch on this thread and whilst it has drifted from the OT it has grown 'naturally'. Pease give us some credit for knowing what's what and if you're unhappy with the way this forum is administered please feel free to leave and 'enjoy' yourselves elsewhere. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I'm becoming increasingly tired with the sniping at the staff here - if it were not for them this forum (as with most) would have deteriorated into anarchy long ago. Thankyou. Dave Dave, I am not unhappy with the way this forum is administered.
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