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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 12:19:37 GMT
neering works ! (Affected District, Met, Circle, H&C) Today from early this morning all lines were suspended through Aldgate/Minories Jct area. Origonally it was because of 'faulty C stock' ... then obstruction on track, then all clear given but later all services stopped again and emergency timetable put in, due to "emergency engineering work." I hear that some scaffolding that was erected in engineering hours, at the end of platforms at Aldgate (buffer end of bay rds) last night. This is in conjunction with S Stock platform lengthening works. Well I hear (only rumour) the scaffolding wasn't high enough for trains to pass under, so incidentally roof of first train through hit the scaffolding ! Needless to say, some heads will roll for this !  Then later to make things worse they had a problem at Acton where trains all got wrong TDs and when a signal cleared it was impossible for the signal op to take a release (meaning trains had to go wherever TD machine decided it would go). Amongst other funny situations this caused was a Picc train going down the EB local with a Tower Hill TD (wonder what happened to it at Hammersmith) and a D Stock getting diverted to Northfields Depot! ;D |
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cso
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Post by cso on Jan 19, 2010 12:28:50 GMT
I had wondered what had happened this morning...
Although this sounds like human error on the part of those that either errected the scaffolding, or the ones that told them how high to make it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 13:05:28 GMT
Reminds me about the time that Balfour Beatty replaced the cable run supports in the Farringdon area. Replaced with ones longer so that the windows of the A Stocks were smashed.... That made the ES if I recall.
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Post by setttt on Jan 19, 2010 14:07:16 GMT
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Post by 1938 on Jan 19, 2010 14:17:47 GMT
Well I hear (only rumour) the scaffolding wasn't high enough for trains to pass under, so incidentally roof of first train through hit the scaffolding ! Perhaps some bright spark gave the scaffolders Tube Stock dimensions. |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jan 19, 2010 14:33:48 GMT
A story about LU without the standard 67ts picture? Well I never! |
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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 14:37:48 GMT
Great how even though this incident is nothing to do with Decembers changes, the Standard still manage to get a dig in about them in the article:
"The Circle line was extended to Hammersmith last month, with trains terminating at Edgware Road in what has been dubbed the “lassoo line”.
The aim was to improve reliability on a line notorious for disruption, but the changes have been beset with problems, with delays of up to 20 minutes now commonplace."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 15:19:17 GMT
I thought it quite amusing that they put on an H&C service to Whitechapel, considering this is the week that there is to be no reversing at Whitechapel, whatever happens! ;D
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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 15:32:40 GMT
I thought it quite amusing that they put on an H&C service to Whitechapel, considering this is the week that there is to be no reversing at Whitechapel, whatever happens! ;D Why not? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 16:16:19 GMT
I thought it quite amusing that they put on an H&C service to Whitechapel, considering this is the week that there is to be no reversing at Whitechapel, whatever happens! ;D Why not? We have a letter in our office saying no reversing there for the whole of this week. I never really read it as i'm on leave now and it wasn't going to affect the service when i was on, but i think it was a trial for when reversing can no longer take place at Whitechapel. I think some of the bods want to see the impact on the service. Maybe someone else can shed more light? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 16:18:12 GMT
but with that in mind does it mean we finally get to say "ner ner we told you so"?
E: err er I meant to quote happybunny there whoops
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 17:01:42 GMT
We have a letter in our office saying no reversing there for the whole of this week. I never really read it as i'm on leave now and it wasn't going to affect the service when i was on, but i think it was a trial for when reversing can no longer take place at Whitechapel. I think some of the bods want to see the impact on the service. Maybe someone else can shed more light? That's it exactly, to see what the impact will be when we can't reverse there any more.........I'm guessing Aldgate East will get used a lot more. |
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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 17:07:57 GMT
Yesterday twice I saw D Stocks going through the city with Whitechapel descriptions, and today obviously lots of trains terminating at Whitechapel.. when we are supposed to be not using it at all !!
This surely shows that the SSR can not cope during disruption without the flexibility at Whitechapel that is currently offered !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 18:25:44 GMT
Yesterday twice I saw D Stocks going through the city with Whitechapel descriptions, and today obviously lots of trains terminating at Whitechapel.. when we are supposed to be not using it at all !! This surely shows that the SSR can not cope during disruption without the flexibility at Whitechapel that is currently offered ! Couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, our opinion on how to run the railway properly doesn't count. If we were saying great things about Valuing Time or the T-cup service, we'd be all over OTM! |
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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 20:25:03 GMT
Unfortunately, our opinion on how to run the railway properly doesn't count. If we were saying great things about Valuing Time or the T-cup service, we'd be all over OTM! I fear you have hit the nail on the head there  |
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Post by happybunny on Jan 19, 2010 20:29:04 GMT
A story about LU without the standard 67ts picture? Well I never! Fear not, the 67ts is back in all its glory in this news article : news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8468713.stmWhich as usual, has nothing in particular to do with the Vic line ! I wonder if the BBC and other's will continue to use this image when all the trains are gone and 09 stock is in full operation And to give the Standard credit where its due, they have now updated there site with an image *shock* that is actually relevant to the article ! Also (so far) the reader comments are not (even more shockingly) really that idiotic! Including: Makes a change from the usual "where was my train, LUL are useless, sack all drivers & station staff" comments we see on the ES website, in regard to ANY LUL related story ! |
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Post by citysig on Jan 19, 2010 22:11:54 GMT
Great how even though this incident is nothing to do with Decembers changes, the Standard still manage to get a dig in about them in the article: "The Circle line was extended to Hammersmith last month, with trains terminating at Edgware Road in what has been dubbed the “lassoo line”. The aim was to improve reliability on a line notorious for disruption, but the changes have been beset with problems, with delays of up to 20 minutes now commonplace." Which is why, despite the severity of the morning's shutdown, fairly quickly, the service was restored to good all over. And I hastened to add, despite a delay this evening where traction current was lost in the Baker Street, the service remained more or less right time throughout. Much to many people's disappointment, I won't have the new timetable knocked in our room. It's a pain when it's up the wall, but then so is any timetable. But on the whole it's a lot less work than we used to have to do. As for their reporters, one visited week before last, and found texting his mate far more interesting than the things we wanted to show him to take back to his readers. Rudeness, but strangely I'm not really surprised. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 19, 2010 23:24:34 GMT
We have a letter in our office saying no reversing there for the whole of this week. I never really read it as i'm on leave now and it wasn't going to affect the service when i was on, but i think it was a trial for when reversing can no longer take place at Whitechapel. I think some of the bods want to see the impact on the service. Maybe someone else can shed more light? That's it exactly, to see what the impact will be when we can't reverse there any more.........I'm guessing Aldgate East will get used a lot more. Can't see Aldgate East being used much - reversing a train there has to be done via the main running line (no siding available), and would thus delay the service not only on the H&C, but the District. Only practical reversing place is Moorgate, with a long layover. When the siding at West Ham comes into use, I believe that the trains that currently reverse at Plaistow will reverse there instead, allowing Plaistow to be used for late running Barking services. On another note, this may have been mentioned elsewhere, but in the peaks do all H&C trains run to Barking in the new timetable, rather than Plaistow / Barking alternating? If so, this is what happened up until a few years ago, when they only had Plaistow reversers on the peak shoulders. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 23:32:52 GMT
Absolutely right - all trains go to Barking in the peaks (or are scheduled to at least ;D ;D ;D).
If memory serves me right the alternate Plaistow/Barking pattern in the peaks was implemented because of problems with C Stock and the need to reduce the stock output (by one).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 3:36:15 GMT
Great how even though this incident is nothing to do with Decembers changes, the Standard still manage to get a dig in about them in the article: It's a pain when it's up the wall, but then so is any timetable. But on the whole it's a lot less work than we used to have to do. I'm not convinced. It needs one Controller watching it all the time, and you have to stay a couple of hours ahead as what is currently an H&C cancellation becomes a Circle later, and we have been told that the Circle line gets priority! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 16:26:15 GMT
Even after rebuilding Whitechapel will be able to be used for emergencty reversing in both directions so all won't be lost.
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Post by happybunny on Jan 20, 2010 16:57:25 GMT
Even after rebuilding Whitechapel will be able to be used for emergencty reversing in both directions so all won't be lost. True but a shut-down for 4 mins whilst this takes place isn't ideal ! |
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Post by apj64 on Jan 20, 2010 20:05:01 GMT
Just wondering how long the Ex East London Line Stock transfer tunnel was at St Mary's Junction.
Could It not have been converted to a single track tunnel siding with Trains tipping out at Aldgate East eastbound and Running into the siding to layover/reverse.
That is assuming the tunnel is long enough to berth a D stock or C stock with out infringing on the New East London Line.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 20, 2010 20:30:00 GMT
Good shout! Think it's been blocked off, but it's a great idea. Does mean that trains have to detrain in Aldgate East then cross over the West bound line to reach the siding though.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 20, 2010 21:05:24 GMT
Theres ample room for a siding in the tunnel, probably enough for a 12 car C stock, but it would involve crossing the westbound. Personally I'd extend Aldgate platform road 3 to connect with the District lines; maybe put catch points/a spur north of the station to avoid a train careering through onto the Met if a SPAD happened. Opperationally pax-wise it wouldnt be a problem because sooner or later the Circle, H&C and District all sharing S7 stock would lead to greater integration, and being the equivilant of a centre siding from the south direction it wouldnt obstruct both Circle and District moves both directions, as platform 4 would. It wouldnt affect trains from the north terminating that much, as both Moorgate and Baker Street are available to divert trains; albeit at a cost. And with masive resignaling occuring in the next 2 decades, why can't 3 extra points be put in? Surely the cost could be gleened from the Crossrail project, if the current rationalisation at Whitechapel can be shown to be a serious detriment to the service in times of disruption (and thus have an impact on TfLs business scope and opperational resiliance)? However... OT  ADMIN: not RIPAS again, Ben, you're incurable!!  |
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Post by Bighat on Jan 20, 2010 21:05:49 GMT
Just wondering how long the Ex East London Line Stock transfer tunnel was at St Mary's Junction. Could It not have been converted to a single track tunnel siding with Trains tipping out at Aldgate East eastbound and Running into the siding to layover/reverse. That is assuming the tunnel is long enough to berth a D stock or C stock with out infringing on the New East London Line. Probably not long enough, but in any case the points at St. Marys curve have now been removed, as have they at the ELL end. Although double tracked throughout, I understand that there was insufficient clearance to run trains past each other on this curve. Finally, it is SO close to the Whitechapel tunnel portal, if reversing at Aldagate East was required, it would be easier to have trailing crossover just east of Aldgate East platforms. |
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Post by andypurk on Jan 20, 2010 21:06:49 GMT
Just wondering how long the Ex East London Line Stock transfer tunnel was at St Mary's Junction. Could It not have been converted to a single track tunnel siding with Trains tipping out at Aldgate East eastbound and Running into the siding to layover/reverse. That is assuming the tunnel is long enough to berth a D stock or C stock with out infringing on the New East London Line. The distance from St. Mary's Junction to Whitechapel Junction was 460m (according to the km points given in the old Quail atlas). So if the former curve was to be used as a reversing siding it looks there is plenty of space for a D-stock train (or even a 8 car S-stock train in the future for Met line reversals), even allowing space for the signalling requirements and overruns. Of course, the main problem would be the time taken to de-train at Aldgate East before running into the siding. |
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Post by apj64 on Jan 20, 2010 22:04:22 GMT
Posted by metman on
Good shout! Think it's been blocked off, but it's a great idea. Does mean that trains have to detrain in Aldgate East then cross over the West bound line to reach the siding though.
But what was blocked off can just as easily be opened up again
Posted by Bighat
Probably not long enough, but in any case the points at St. Marys curve have now been removed, as have they at the ELL end.
But again could be reinstated and would only require shunt signals as opposed to full signalling
Although double tracked throughout, I understand that there was insufficient clearance to run trains past each other on this curve.
Hence why I stated a single track siding
Finally, it is SO close to the Whitechapel tunnel portal, if reversing at Aldagate East was required, it would be easier to have trailing crossover just east of Aldgate East platforms
The Trailing cross over already exsists but delays would be caused whilst the Operater changed ends, so in that case the planned crossover arrangements at Whitechapel may aswel be used
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 22:06:32 GMT
Perhaps going off topic (smack wrists time?) the first H&C 'electric train' Working Timetable of December 1906 had a small number of H&C trains (both steam and electric) that terminated at St. Mary's instead of Whitechapel. I assume that these reversed on the ELL link which was, by then, not regularly used by passenger trains until its (the ELL) electrification on 31/3/1913.
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Post by Bighat on Jan 20, 2010 22:36:20 GMT
Posted by metman on
Good shout! Think it's been blocked off, but it's a great idea. Does mean that trains have to detrain in Aldgate East then cross over the West bound line to reach the siding though. But what was blocked off can just as easily be opened up again Posted by Bighat
Probably not long enough, but in any case the points at St. Marys curve have now been removed, as have they at the ELL end.But again could be reinstated and would only require shunt signals as opposed to full signalling Although double tracked throughout, I understand that there was insufficient clearance to run trains past each other on this curve.Hence why I stated a single track siding Finally, it is SO close to the Whitechapel tunnel portal, if reversing at Aldagate East was required, it would be easier to have trailing crossover just east of Aldgate East platformsThe Trailing cross over already exsists but delays would be caused whilst the Operater changed ends, so in that case the planned crossover arrangements at Whitechapel may aswel be used Are you SURE that a trailing crossover exists EAST of the station beween there and St. Marys? |
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