Phil
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Post by Phil on Dec 13, 2009 7:58:10 GMT
This thread is opened solely for observations on the day-ro-day running, and for explanatons of the delays and shutdowns that occur.
In other words answering the questions 'how's it doing?' and 'what went wrong?'
Anything else can still be posted in the 'new circle' thread. Any irrelevant posts in this thread will be ruthlessly deleted without notification since we have had several private comments from members recently about threads being allowed to drift without intervention.
And a reminder that we cannot move posts from one thread to another - Proboards still doesn't let us do it even though they promised it about 2 years ago........so please don't ask!!!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2009 13:02:45 GMT
my first experience was unimpressive. Notting Hilll Gate to Kings Cross, got a District to Edgware Rd as no Circles on DMI. Held for a couple of mins at Praed St junction. First onward train left as we arrived into station. Footbridge crowded as I crossed with several confused people at top of stairs to p1 and 2. Shortly after a terminating circle arrived in p2, t/op and stn staff had to get people out of every car afaics. DMI on p1 not giving any information apart from whether next High St train is from p2 or p3. By the time a train arrived in p1 another District and Circle had arrived and so it had to take 4 train loads of onward pax plus those already on board - front car possibly the lightest loaded and that was standing room only, looking like a train in the shoulders of the peak, especially after sitting at a green starter at Baker St. Train was headed to Barking so Circle pax would need to change again onto service advertised at King's Cross as 4 mins behind. Verdict based on 1 journey: Very poor
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 13:52:54 GMT
Have all of the old-style ALLCAPS line diagram signs been replaced yet? I hope that they were saved for the LTM Acton, especially the ones with the H&C in magenta...
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 13, 2009 14:26:00 GMT
Still a few C Stocks running with old blinds today, at least 2 on each service. (District Main has lots of extra running time build in).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 14:51:50 GMT
Northern part of the circle appears to be running well. Since both Hammersmith & C and Circle line trains are indicated as "Hammersmith via Paddington", this gives the (illusory!) impression of a much improved frequency on the line.
Many of the trains still need their internal line maps updating.
Have not yet made it to Paddington to see how that little old platform is coping with all the extra bodies….
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Post by 21146 on Dec 13, 2009 15:32:35 GMT
I look forward to reading some first-hand reports here as I suspect there will pressure from above to maintain "good service" status on the Circle and H&C regardless of the reality on the ground. (Surely not? Or shades of the IOC visit circa 2004?)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 17:09:51 GMT
Have not yet made it to Paddington to see how that little old platform is coping with all the extra bodies…. Tomorrow (Monday) will probably be the first real test of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 19:57:58 GMT
Royal Oak was busier than normal with people crossing over to go back.
I also noticed a handful of people down the Hammersmith branch not getting on westbound trains displaying "Circle Line to Hammersmith", but choosing to wait for the "Hammersmith via Paddington" one...
Also, when I set up the DVA in platform 2 at Hammersmith "this is a Circle Line train via Paddington and Baker Street", about 10 people jumped off and got on the train in platform 3!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Dec 13, 2009 21:10:09 GMT
Also, when I set up the DVA in platform 2 at Hammersmith "this is a Circle Line train via Paddington and Baker Street", about 10 people jumped off and got on the train in platform 3! So you didn't shout a manual PA "listen to the message PROPERLY, idiots!" ;D
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Post by uzairjubilee on Dec 13, 2009 21:12:45 GMT
Just shows that people have not looked at the 'New extended Circle Line' posters
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Post by crystal on Dec 13, 2009 22:27:01 GMT
Also, when I set up the DVA in platform 2 at Hammersmith "this is a Circle Line train via Paddington and Baker Street", about 10 people jumped off and got on the train in platform 3! So you didn't shout a manual PA "listen to the message PROPERLY, idiots!" ;D If they were as smart as most occasional users of the Underground, they were probably just trying to get a District or Piccadilly line train from Hammersmith anyway...
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 14, 2009 12:22:10 GMT
Not so good today!
- 1 District Wimb-EdgRd cancelled - 'no stock'. - Several H&Cs reversing at Whitechapel. - Signal Operators at Whitechapel were "varying the routing and platform working in the best interests of the service". i.e using all available! - Still a few C Stocks with old blinds.
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Dec 14, 2009 12:33:57 GMT
Not so good today! - 1 District Wimb-EdgRd cancelled - 'no stock'. - Several H&Cs reversing at Whitechapel. - Signal Operators at Whitechapel were "varying the routing and platform working in the best interests of the service". i.e using all available! - Still a few C Stocks with old blinds. I think from all the chaos that a lot of us predicted on here for this morning that is'nt as bad as it could have been, although there's still tomorrow and tomorrows morrow and so on. oh and there's tonight aswell!
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 14, 2009 13:46:05 GMT
Several H&Cs reversing at Whitechapel. ;D Does this not prove the suggestion that in the future any 'emergency' crossover facility will be regularly used? Or is that too cynical?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 14, 2009 14:08:59 GMT
Not necessarily as at the moment trains can reverse at Whitechapel without having a particularly major impact on the service - ie, trains can "run round" whilst a driver changes ends.
Once Whitechapel is remodelled however, any reversing train will cause a delay in much the same way as a train reversing at say Embankment or South Kensington.
Also, the service control function has to get Whitechapel reversing out of mind as a primary service recovery tool - not easily done when it's been there all you're working life!
EDIT: all that being said though, if it's still available, why shouldn't it be used?!!
And this is only day One proper - let's give it a chance at least!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 15:54:22 GMT
All the line managers are patting themselves on the back today, as of course, nothing of note happened. I will say that it did run very well, with a couple of blips here and there, as well as 3 no ok stocks. However, should we have a shutdown for any reason, it is not going to be easy to recover as the "old" Circle & H&C were. I'll wait until we try and recover from a shutdown before I have a genuine opinion on it, but if it keeps running like today, then i'll be more than happy. As for the Met services, that also ran okay, although there were no late running issues going into the city. At one point we did pull two off at Harrow due to a defective train at Baker Street, so the potential was there for the Met, and then the C&H, to go pear shaped. I definitely think it is a case of wait and see.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 14, 2009 18:39:29 GMT
Took a look today. Arrived at Kings Cross from Stratford via HS1, first train on the I/R was "Circle Line via Paddington". Eh - surely that can't be right, that service finished on Saturday? Anyway Set 212 duly arrived with an old-style "CIRCLE LINE" blind on the front (and "MOORGATE" on the back btw) www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4185673032/. www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4185664522/in/photostream/Which way did it go upon reaching Edgware Road? Who knows! Next two trains were indicated as "Hammersmith via Paddington" so I took the second of these. We soon caught up with the first one, these being about 2 minutes' apart, and were held briefly outside Edgware Road. On pulling in at 14:20, platform 2 was empty but there was a "connecting" Distict Line on platform 3. Despite the presence of two CSA's, the T/OP of the Wimbledon service deftly closed his doors just as ours were opening. I pointed this out to one of the platform staff who just shrugged his shoulders in response. After leaving an inbound Edgware Road passed us on the O/R, yet I caught a glimpse of a second District Line being held at Praed Street Junction right behind it, which must have screwed the dedicated platform working at Edgware Road (or was this a Circle showing "Edgware Road"?). I alighted at Royal Oak to get a photo of an E/B train showing the new "Circle Line via Aldgate" display www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4185692286/, before returning to Paddington (Sub). Still the same cramped layout here, with the new "Up" and "Down" pictograms installed above the solitary staircase now partially obscured by more recent ceiling work. Little or no signage directing passengers to the other LU station, though the H&C is indicated in reverse by a pink strip on the floor. A big queue for tickets too, with no LU ticket office and just a couple of FGW machines. At Paddington (Praed Street) regular recorded PA messages advised of the need to change at Edgware Road, though oddly said that the service alterations were effective from Monday, when in fact it commenced yesterday. A similar message was going out at High Street Ken and told people wanting Baker Street, Kings Cross and Liverpool Street to change at Edgware Road, but I would have thought Notting Hill Gate and the Central Line a better bet for the latter. All the W/B trains on the north side of the Circle were showing "Hammersmith via Paddington" so what is the "Circle Line to Hammersmith" display for?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 18:41:25 GMT
I agree we'll have to wait and see.
It did run remarkably smoothly today, first time outside weekends I can remember being regulated at Aldgate for over 5 minutes though... the running time is so generous the punters are getting delayed because there are no delays!!!
A change is as good as a rest and all that. I did see one Inner Rail circle run round from Moorgate about 2pm (due to earlier being changed over in Hammersmith depot due to defective stock I believe), confusing everyone who'd been told everything on the west was going to Hammersmith!
The real test is when it goes right up the wall as a few have pointed out. I know I predicted chaos but i'm pleased to say I was wrong. Come the first major problem I hope that is still the case.
I also hope people will note that certain managers' predictions of "militant drivers" wrecking it were unfounded.
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gantshill
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Post by gantshill on Dec 14, 2009 19:10:35 GMT
My experience today? Morning Wood Lane to Euston Square. Wood Lane has new line diagrams up, but the strip above the name along the platform is still just H&C pink. Jumped straight on a train at 8am and got a seat. Definite improvement.
This evening. Euston Square to East Putney about 5pm. Got to Edgware Road, waiting on the platform for a Wimbledon train, as none in the platform. Announcments saying that next Hammersmith train was in 12 minutes, but also announcements telling us that all lines were running well. Circle line left from Plat 2 (as it should). Next Circle line arrived before Wimbledon, but then Wimbledon train came and reversed before the Circle line. I waited around 10 minutes from arriving at Edgware Road until Wimbledon train departed.
So a mixed bag for me today.
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Post by citysig on Dec 14, 2009 21:55:14 GMT
A change is as good as a rest and all that. I did see one Inner Rail circle run round from Moorgate about 2pm (due to earlier being changed over in Hammersmith depot due to defective stock I believe), confusing everyone who'd been told everything on the west was going to Hammersmith! I think this is something that will get easier in time. For instance, until now everything on the east has been Circle/Whitechapel/Plaistow/Barking/Aldgate with the odd Moorgate. Throw in a Kings Cross and everyone jumps. I think once the timetable beds in, the need to tell everyone that everything is a "Hammersmith" will die out, and people will go back to taking the descriptions as the place the next train is heading, rather than falling into mass confusion. I also hope people will note that certain managers' predictions of "militant drivers" wrecking it were unfounded. Yet? ;D Wood Lane has new line diagrams up, but the strip above the name along the platform is still just H&C pink. Cutting us some slack would be appreciated ;D How many others would realistically have noticed? Got to Edgware Road, waiting on the platform for a Wimbledon train, as none in the platform. Announcments saying that next Hammersmith train was in 12 minutes, but also announcements telling us that all lines were running well. Circle line left from Plat 2 (as it should). Next Circle line arrived before Wimbledon, but then Wimbledon train came and reversed before the Circle line. I waited around 10 minutes from arriving at Edgware Road until Wimbledon train departed. The 12 minute wait for the next Hammersmith sounds like a little late-running or maybe a single cancellation. But that's just 4 minutes longer than the booked wait on Saturday. The Circle arriving before then departing after the Wimbledon sounds like a little early-running on the Circle, with a late-running (booked first) District coming and going in between. Early running Circles and late-running Districts. Something not seen for a while ;D Was the wait really more than it used to be on an average day where a little late running in the peak can tend to make things a little drawn out.
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gantshill
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Post by gantshill on Dec 15, 2009 10:07:13 GMT
My apologies to MetControl.
My comment on the pink strip above Wood Lane was not a complaint - only an observation.
I enjoy the fact that on at least one of the stations on the northern half of the circle it still only has Circle and Metropolitan colours and not the H&C. I appreciate the historical signage.
It seems to me that the signage showing the revised Circle Line has been brought in far quicker than when the H&C turned pink, so actually congratulations are in order.
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Post by citysig on Dec 15, 2009 10:35:27 GMT
My apologies to MetControl. My comment on the pink strip above Wood Lane was not a complaint - only an observation. Not a problem, I took your observation in the context that was meant. But you're right, there are some stations that never even made it to the 21st century in terms of signage before the change.
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Post by plasmid on Dec 15, 2009 10:41:24 GMT
Here we go, Circle Line suspended anti-clockwise due to a signal failure at Edgeware Road. Hammersmith & City line will continue to operate between Hammersmith and Barking.
Let's see what drama's unfold and how long it takes to recover...
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Post by citysig on Dec 15, 2009 10:47:20 GMT
Having a quick nose around, it appears the timetable is getting its first real test this morning. A points failure at Edgware Road (critical to the use of platform 3) and District Line operating problems have seriously disrupted all services. The Circle (former Inner-rail) has been suspended, and unlike before where 7 trains could easily be "lost" it is now a case of rotating the train cancellations to ensure gaps are not caused to the H&C and Outer-Rail Circle. I believe my colleague, lc66, is on duty this morning, so will no doubt feedback the chaos caused. If he fails to report here, then take it that he may not have survived the chaos ;D EDIT: nick0323 beat my fingers to it. I had the reasons why though ;D
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 15, 2009 10:53:08 GMT
It seems to me that the signage showing the revised Circle Line has been brought in far quicker than when the H&C turned pink, so actually congratulations are in order. Indeed, the WB platform train indicators at East Ham and Upton Park still illuminate to show: METROPOLITAN LINE via LIVERPOOL ST. & KING'S CROSS
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Post by plasmid on Dec 15, 2009 11:12:17 GMT
Indeed they do, always made me wonder if the Met would ever return services to Barking hence it being left in place. I guess it's just a heritage feature being left by way of lazyness.
EDIT: Good Service already? *shock*
EDIT: Another points failure at Edgeware Road!? Or has the earlier one not been resolved yet?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 11:36:43 GMT
Here we go, Circle Line suspended anti-clockwise due to a signal failure at Edgeware Road. Hammersmith & City line will continue to operate between Hammersmith and Barking. Let's see what drama's unfold and how long it takes to recover... Platform 3 at ERD was taken out of commission due to a problem with 20 points failing to normalise after a train went into P3. The District has been suspended from HSK to ERD due to this until close of traffic. The Inner Rail suspension was due to a wrong signal being cleared at Mansion House EB and then Tower Hill EB. Rather than totally destroy the Inner Rail, we took 2 off, sent one to Moorgate to reverse and one to Whitechapel. Paddington, Bayswater and NHG were completely swamped on the IR with no trains to them at all! Just as we were managing to recover it, we had a signal failure at Aldgate on OB1, which caused a suspension of the Met and late running on the EB and OR, then there was a "signal failure" (I'll say no more on that) at Plaistow EB. We were only able to recover what we could due to 2 trains cancelled for no stock, and a couple of spare T/Ops being available. Full service and no spares will be a totally different outcome. It seems, through talking to higher management, that they are very aware that a shutdown on this timetable will take a lot longer to recover than before. How that provides a "more reliable service" beats me, but we'll keep at it!
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Post by 21146 on Dec 15, 2009 15:32:35 GMT
I see the DR still suspended to Edgware Road. So presumably all W/B passengers have to use the footbridges at the latter if going "around the corner"? The promotional leaflet offered three specific improvements: - A more reliable service
- Fewer delays
- More trains to Hammersmith
In fact the first two are actually the same thing said in a different way, whilst if more trains are going to Hammersmith, there must be less serving elsewhere, perhaps around the 'west' side of the Circle or between Plaistow and Barking? To return specifically to the new WTT in action, it's good that the Hammersmith branch has an increase in frequency, it's always been an anomoly that this inner-city route had such a sparse service interval. Unfortunately the losers now seem to be those travelling between High Street Ken and Edgware Road and then beyond. At least before there was roughly a 50-50 chance an Outer Rail would arrive first, obviating another wait at the latter, now it's always going to be a case of having to change. Still, isn't there that useful DMI message at Edgware Road that reassuringly flashes up "Next Whitechapel train in 15 minutes" or similar?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 16:07:50 GMT
I think this has exposed one of the flaws of this pattern rather early on.
Previously non-availability of Edgware Road platform 3 would simply see all the District's use platform 2 with no significant issues. If some blocking back was occuring then, at best, alternate District C stocks would go round at High Street.
Since there isn't enough bay platform space to turn the whole District C stock service at High Street to return w/b correct time. I assume either some trains will have "gone away" or be diverted to Mansion House (with a consequent curtailment at Putney Bridge next trip). Or HSK platform 2 is being used for reversing "between Circles" or is there a knock on reduction to the Olympia service. Any of which is more disruption than under the old WTT.
I assume this will go on until repairs are effected, presumably overnight.
I'm surprised two wrong signals lowered should have generated a delay of much in excess of 6 mins (3 each for the release) unless there was delay in reporting/responding to the signal's offered, let alone caused a service suspension, however can't have been a decision taken lightly, given the substantial efforts then required by control to divert or reform every outer rail train (which, of course, now become inner rails). Not by any means an easy or enviable task.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 16:53:55 GMT
I do wonder why the H&C remained a GOOD SERVICE as long as it did TBH. More than a couple of 20 min delays heading East and one gap of nearly 30 mins on a Good service?
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