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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 17, 2010 23:03:00 GMT
Arriving at Bank this morning I noticed that the DMI on the platform read "No information available"
I'm not sure what useful information the DMI might provide, beacuse in their 111 year history, that platform and its opposite number have each seen, by my calculation, about 3 million departures and without exception, those departures have gone to Waterloo - the next and last (indeed the only other) station on the line.
Would it be a wild surmise to assume this one would not buck that trend?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 23:28:51 GMT
When they're working, they tell you which platform the next train will leave from, however this information is only displayed once the route over the crossover has been set up, which is usually only a minute or so before it arrives. They don't give you any kind of information on how long you'll have to wait.
They also flash 'Train Approaching' as the train pulls into the platform, just in case you hadn't noticed.
Someday, they might even get the clock on them to show the righ time as well.
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Post by glasgowdriver on Mar 16, 2010 2:45:37 GMT
the dmi's at waterloo never seem to work all the say is "all trains go to bank" dont give you a stand back train approaching or anything lol all there usefull for is the clock really as you can see when the trains due due to the fact the driver whistles as he pulls out the depot
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 14:30:32 GMT
Will the DMIs on the W&C ever perform as normal DMIs (next three trains with minutes-to-arrival info)? If not, what on earth was the point in installing them?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 22:45:51 GMT
As far as I can see, their primary purpose is to show which platform the train will leave from at Bank. (Presumably a light-up arrow pointing to the platform is too cheap and easy tese days).
I don't see how you could display timing infomation on them, as the Waterloo ones would only know when the train was due as it pulls out of the depot (and you can see it anyway) and the Bank ones only show an indication when the route is set across the crossover, which is usually no more than a minute before the train anyway.
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 22, 2010 1:09:29 GMT
May I suggest that, somewhere, there exists someone who measures how good information is. Since it is difficult to quantify this (i.e. it requires effort), they simplify it by having a tickbox system. You know, ten points for there being announcements every three seconds, ten points for a PA after thirty two seconds stopped at a signal, ten points for a dot matrix indicator. So some middle management person looks at this and figures that for Bank to get their ten points, they need to put a DMI up, irrespective of whether it actually serves any useful purpose.
Am I too cynical?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 18:38:14 GMT
I don't see how you could display timing infomation on them, as the Waterloo ones would only know when the train was due as it pulls out of the depot (and you can see it anyway) and the Bank ones only show an indication when the route is set across the crossover, which is usually no more than a minute before the train anyway. Other lines (such as the Jubilee, Northern and Victoria) seem to have got around this issue and are able to "see" trains right round the terminus points of the line by calculating the waiting time at the termonus' into the display. For example, stand at Stockwell northbound on the Victoria line and the DMI shows trains as far away as anywhere else on the line - they simply factor in the correct number of minutes the train will wait at Brixton before moving on to Stockwell. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 22, 2010 18:43:28 GMT
Other lines (such as the Jubilee, Northern and Victoria) seem to have got around this issue and are able to "see" trains right round the terminus points of the line by calculating the waiting time at the termnius' into the display. For example, stand at Stockwell northbound on the Victoria line and the DMI shows trains as far away as anywhere else on the line - they simply factor in the correct number of minutes the train will wait at Brixton before moving on to Stockwell. I think you'll find that level of information is more related to the use of Programme Machines/Identra (or whatever is its replacement). It is not the Victoria DMI being inherently cleverer than the Drain's DMI, the Victoria line has more information that is able to drive the DMI information. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 18:47:24 GMT
Other lines (such as the Jubilee, Northern and Victoria) seem to have got around this issue and are able to "see" trains right round the terminus points of the line by calculating the waiting time at the termnius' into the display. For example, stand at Stockwell northbound on the Victoria line and the DMI shows trains as far away as anywhere else on the line - they simply factor in the correct number of minutes the train will wait at Brixton before moving on to Stockwell. I think you'll find that level of information is more related to the use of Programme Machines/Identra (or whatever is its replacement). It is not the Victoria DMI being inherently cleverer than the Drain's DMI, the Victoria line has more information that is able to drive the DMI information. OK, that explains the Victoria line - but it doesn't explain why the Jubilee, Northern and Central lines are able to do this. The Jubliee was able to do it way back when the DMIs were installed in the 80s. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 22, 2010 19:05:38 GMT
Well, it does in a way....
The W&C still has various legacy systems (or lack of them) from pre-LUL days.
I have a feeling that the bottom portion of the Jubilee was able to have working DMIs so early was the programme machine at Charing Cross controlled from Finchley Road: lots of cable directly connected/patched into the appropriate feeds. Easy-peasy.
Destination information has been tapped into on the UERL lines since 1907, all very straightforward; I've seen destination indicator circuits from the 20s for the Northern (amongst others).
What the W&C does not have is any existing dedicated cabling to convey that information [this is an educated guess, and I'm happy to be proved wrong] to be driven into DMI circuits. The Bank DMIs are driven locally (probably off the KRs for the crossover - educated guess territory), rather than from Waterloo.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 22, 2010 21:39:33 GMT
I believe the Central line has the timetable programmed into the system, so it knows the destination and departure time from the terminus. It also can show times from trains waiting in depots and sidings. If the train is signifcantly deviating from the timetable, the system makes adjustments itself by comparing the location of the train to where it should be. I think the Northern line requires the driver to reset ther PTI before the terminus for this to work properly, but the Centrel shows the timetabled destination of the train, regardless of what the driver has put up on the front.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2010 14:06:14 GMT
I believe the Central line has the timetable programmed into the system, so it knows the destination and departure time from the terminus. It also can show times from trains waiting in depots and sidings. If the train is signifcantly deviating from the timetable, the system makes adjustments itself by comparing the location of the train to where it should be. I think the Northern line requires the driver to reset ther PTI before the terminus for this to work properly, but the Centrel shows the timetabled destination of the train, regardless of what the driver has put up on the front. All this (and the above posts about other lines) shows that it is possible to have fully-functional DMIs on all lines - provided the will (and the money) exists to install the necessary equipment to enable it. It does strike me as a bit odd, however, to spend money on installing DMIs where they'd also need the extra kit to make them work, but not then actually installing said kit - thus rendering the initial expenditure rather pointless. This, surely, is the worst of all worlds? Either spend the money necessary to make the whole DMI setup work - or don't spend it at all. Spending a lesser amount on a half-and-half job (that amounts to no real improvement to the passengers anyway) just seems strange. |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 24, 2010 20:06:30 GMT
I believe the Central line has the timetable programmed into the system, so it knows the destination and departure time from the terminus. It also can show times from trains waiting in depots and sidings. If the train is signifcantly deviating from the timetable, the system makes adjustments itself by comparing the location of the train to where it should be. I think the Northern line requires the driver to reset ther PTI before the terminus for this to work properly, but the Centrel shows the timetabled destination of the train, regardless of what the driver has put up on the front. All this (and the above posts about other lines) shows that it is possible to have fully-functional DMIs on all lines - provided the will (and the money) exists to install the necessary equipment to enable it. It does strike me as a bit odd, however, to spend money on installing DMIs where they'd also need the extra kit to make them work, but not then actually installing said kit - thus rendering the initial expenditure rather pointless. This, surely, is the worst of all worlds? Either spend the money necessary to make the whole DMI setup work - or don't spend it at all. Spending a lesser amount on a half-and-half job (that amounts to no real improvement to the passengers anyway) just seems strange. Think that's a fair comment - DMI's aren't much use at Bank! |
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Post by suncloud on Mar 25, 2010 13:07:50 GMT
Wirh upcoming signalling upgrades, the quality of information available to DMI's is going to increase. So it does make sense in some locations that when upgrading stations to install/upgrade DMIs even if the information currently available is limited. While it is unlikely trains will leave the W&C departure platform at Waterloo for anywhere other than Bank (at least for the forseeable futur... DMI's may be viewed as required to provide visual announcements in the future...
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Post by mcmaddog on Mar 25, 2010 13:37:14 GMT
As can be seen at Watford, Northwood, Northwood Hills, Pinner and North Harrow. All that's shown is the line and direction and has been for a number of years. One assumes this is awaiting the new signalling system.
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