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Post by Chris W on Feb 11, 2010 13:14:38 GMT
I've been made aware of an interesting incident on the NY Subway system when NY Police apparently decided to make up photography rules on the spot and then when they were educated by the photographer arrested him. The charges were thrown out and the photographer successfully sued the police. I'm not saying that suing is always the best way to resolve such issues, however it appears to have resulted in the NYPD rules for challenging photographers being re-issued. Returning to the UK and railway photography in general, be aware that the Government intends to implement section 44 of the Anti-Terrorism Act... yes the very same part of the act that the European Court of Human Rights declared was unlawful back in January... at every mainline and LU/TfL railway station during the 2012 Olympics. Whilst its the responsibility of the UK Government to protect its citizens from possible terrorist attack and that everyone remains vigilant, be aware that no one has every been convicted of hostile reconnaissance in the UK (that's not to say it could never happen). Lets hope that common sense is applied by the authorities on the ground when the time comes, however based upon numerous examples of idiocy, I'm not confident. In fact I'd prefer that the Government and Police would decide against acting unlawfully in not using section 44 in the first place! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2010 13:48:59 GMT
I agree with your sentiments Chris but the trouble is they're damned if they do and damned if they don't aren't they? Ban photography and they get it in the neck from genuine photographers just out to take a nice picture, don't ban it and end up with another atrocity as a result of terrorist intelligence gained........I dread to think of the headlines that sort of "negligence" would engender.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Feb 11, 2010 19:09:43 GMT
I agree with the sentiments of both the above, but wasn't it Railway Magazine that launched a successful campaign regarding railway photography, and the issue of a statement in a recent issue of that magazine.
I understand the anti-terrorism sentiments, but I feel this giovernment uses it as a catch-all paranoia to ban anything they don't like or don't want us to do. Basically, they misuse powers.
An example was given on a BBC News report recently, where fishermen at Hastings, being caught with too many cod for their quota, were being not only fined, but having their assets siezed under the Proceeds of Crime Act! An Act designed to sieze the assets of drug dealers and big-time crooks, not the humble fisherman!
It's bad enough having cameras spy on us everywhere we move, but to have a different form of photography banned is rather hypocritical.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 11, 2010 19:16:03 GMT
My question is also where has the belief that terrorists would go out and take photographs has come from? Where is the evidence that suggests this and surely there are easier ways to identify targets coutesy of internet search engines? If photographers could be terrorists in disguise why did the police ask for photographers to come forward with any useful images when 7/7 occurred? My other concern is that is police or whoever want to ask me what I'm doing I have no issues... just don't behave illegally or act unlawfully against me (or others photographers for that matter). |
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Feb 11, 2010 19:23:31 GMT
Bear in mind too neither the police or anyone else can order you to destroy your film negatives, hard disk or any other media just because you shouldn't take photos there!
I gather it's illegal to take pictures of the police; maybe they don't like being caught out,as in the apparently innocent passer-by who got thumped by a coppper in the City of London demo and died a short while after from his injuries.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 11, 2010 19:42:28 GMT
I gather it's illegal to take pictures of the police; maybe they don't like being caught out,as in the apparently innocent passer-by who got thumped by a coppper in the City of London demo and died a short while after from his injuries. Its not... this has been clarified. This issue originated from the intorduction of section 76 of the Anti-Terrorism Act resulting in the creation of the group I'm a photographer not a terrorist and a mass protest outside New Scotland Yark in February 2009: photographernotaterrorist.org/2009/08/home-office-issues-new-advice/ |
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Post by angelislington on Feb 25, 2010 6:47:41 GMT
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 25, 2010 9:57:40 GMT
My thinking on this issue might be considered extreme but it is quite simple, I am fed up of politics and politicians who want to have their cake and eat it! We should all refrain from photographing politicians, the Police, the Armed Forces, anything or anywhere that might be considered sensitive etc at all times. In this day and age they all need national coverage when it suits them, so take it away, stop reporting anything about them/it in the media. They all seem to forget that without the support of the vast majority of the population they would be powerless. Unfortunately the majority are sheep more afraid of the paedophiles and terrorists that apparently outnumber them. Just 5700 people signing the petition is rather telling don't you think?
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Post by 21146 on Feb 25, 2010 10:58:44 GMT
Well, LU (and other) railway staff regularly make up rules regarding photography too!
In fact, when I saw this thread's title I thought it was referring to Glasgow, not New York. Still, that's be next...
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Post by rayb on Feb 25, 2010 12:30:47 GMT
Returning to the UK and railway photography in general, be aware that the Government intends to implement section 44 of the Anti-Terrorism Act... yes the very same part of the act that the European Court of Human Rights declared was unlawful back in January... at every mainline and LU/TfL railway station during the 2012 Olympics. This is worrying - am I the only one that feels that if such a ban was put in place for the Olympics, that the authorities would be in no hurry to lift it afterwards? I know that s.44 was deemed unlawful, however I'm sure that someone will be tasked with finding a way to getting something that looks, feels and works like s.44 in via other means. I can only recall being spoken to by a police officer once whilst taking a few pics at West Ham station (between line xfers). I was being very open, not at all furtive but still the questions came. I was getting a bit fed up so pulled out my passport, showed it to her and then offered to let her look at the pics I'd been taking. She seemed taken aback, declined and said she'd let it go - "this time".... I had to bite my tongue. |
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cso
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Post by cso on Feb 25, 2010 12:49:47 GMT
This is worrying - am I the only one that feels that if such a ban was put in place for the Olympics, that the authorities would be in no hurry to lift it afterwards? Nope, you're definitely not the only one, I'd been thinking the same to be honest. I know that s.44 was deemed unlawful, however I'm sure that someone will be tasked with finding a way to getting something that looks, feels and works like s.44 in via other means. The impression I got was that the government were just going to 'ignore' the unlawful nature of it. |
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 25, 2010 14:03:11 GMT
I'm afraid there is nothing to be done, the government has convinced mr and mrs average that we are all in mortal danger from terrorists and photographers are very firmly the enemy. I have all but given up using my camera anywhere away from the home as it is becoming too much hassle. I have been stopped not only by plain clothes police but also by citizens demanding to know what I am photographing and why when photographing buses and street furniture. In fact a plain clothes officer that accosted me suggested that he had never heard of bus, train or emergency vehicle photographers though he knew about plane spotters! I am not that interested in aircraft though I do collect images of all types of transport and I live right next door to the Red Arrows which I can freely photograph from the top of the house though I seldom bother.
We are more than halfway down the slippery slope to a police state and I was quite unnerved to see on a recent documentary that no-one in government knows exactly what MI5 and MI6 do, nor does any politician have the power to know. It does make one wonder exactly what the government does control!
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