depot derailment

It was in Ruislip depot actually.

It was a Battery Loco, and being within depot confines, wasn't service affecting.

If you want any more than that, you'd best wait until the official findings are released - speculating may be unhelpful at this stage....

"Minor Delays".........

Can I then assume that the 1992 stock is kept in the same areas as the service stock then. I'm quite surprised by this actually (or should I not be!).

No I mean the 1992 tube stock.

Service stock = generally on all railways departmental stock = specifically on LU engineers stock.

But is not ''service stock'' written like that a well known term ?

I agree it could be ambiguous if you take the words literally, but 99.999% of enthusiasts would recognise ''service stock'' as meaning departmental / engineers stock and not that which runs the public ... umm ... service and I don't think I have ever ever heard anyone refer to revenue earning (or ''capital'' if you want the oppsite to departmental) stock as ''service stock'', either as a professional or as an enthusiast. And that includes my daily job now, within one of the line control centres - ok we'd not say ''service stock'' for engineers trains but we'd not say it for 1992 stock either.

Serviceable possibly, unserviceable almost certainly

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Nick

Really ??

If you look at main line railways, take the Southern Railway, and their tube line, the loco that is generally known today as DS75, the Waterloo & City Bo electric shunter part of NRM collection, was previously number 75S - that S means service.

DS prefix meant - I have always understood Departmental Southern (region) in BR days - but pre-BR, the S suffix meant Service.

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Nick

I've always called engineers trains service stock and passenger stock the line stock but whatever floats your boat!

Don't know the layout of Ruislip well which was really what I was getting at. How many covered roads are there and does the engineering stock share space with the 92ts or does it have its own space.

Chris, you'd probably be right to guess the derailment took place on one of the throats and blocked a few trains in!

Yes.

I work in one now and my previous role was in another one. I am not going to write here which one these are although you may be able to deduce the locations from other posts. I can assure that that the correct abbreviation for formal title of the location in which I work, and for the one I previously worked in ends in ''CC'' which means Control Centre. What I have posted so far is either consistent with what I have been taught or consistent with terminology in peer use.

If there is some di-agreement on that then all I can say then we will have to agree to dis-agree.

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Nick

FWIW, I can't recall ever having heard the term "service stock" used within LUL. From a trains point of view, engineers trains would be referred to as "engineers trains" or more unofficially as "ballast trains".

d7666, I think you are reading far more into the the centre thing than you need to.

railtechnician certainly makes a good point in that different parts of LU (different locations within the same areas even) have different names for the same thing - in my world it's control rooms, in yours it's control centres. I wouldn't mind betting that when it comes down to it, we both probably have different definitions too.

I didn't particularly mean anything by marking out the word centre - I probably only did so as it seemed to disagree with my view of LU. Can we move on?

On a lighter note - and possibly adding fuel to the fire - I was working a football train for the West Ham game today, and whilst running empty up to Whitechapel (ready to run in passenger service from Upton Park on the eastbound), I was advised by the controller that I was following a service train as part of a message giving further instructions on how I was to work my train. When he said service train, he meant a train in passenger service. Make of that what you will....

We could go on all night about this!

When the loco derailed would the ERU have to come in to rerail it, or could depot staff deal with it?

Funnily enough I was running the other West Ham football train but was given no instructions at all on how it was to be worked, in which case I do what I consider best for the service and customers overall. The train was repositioned, unnecessarily and off timetable as it happens, but thats an aside, from Upminster to Barking sidings to access from Upney. So I worked mine as a service train (I mean as being in passenger service) appropriately displaying a, rare, "Upney" destination. In the event they hadn't intended it to run passenger but I dare say those whom alighted before Upney appreciated it, especially given we were running a x10min service in place to the usual x5mins.

However it is interesting to note the differing expressions people expect for empty and passenger workings. Those with an NR background sometimes use ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) which i didn't understand when I first heard ECS. This tends not to be used on LUL. Another expression, which is used and I do use and seems to originate from the buses is "Dead" or "Dead run" to refer to a train to run empty.

The usual expressions are "Empty" and "Passenger" in a timetable, with empty workings shown in italics. Sometimes "Passenger" is shown or referred to as "PAX" which also refers to being in passenger service.

On LUL "Service Train" also refers to a train in passenger service. Engineering trains tend to be referred to as "Engineers Train" "Ballast Train" or "Battery Loco".

Some mental separation seemed to be necessary for "Service Stock" as books always tend to use this expression to refer to engineering trains, as in servicing (or maintaining) the railway. However on the ground "Service Stock" refers to the normal rolling stock for use on a given line. With "Heritage Stock" being obvious. Any stock moving over unfamiliar territory tends to be called a "Test train" or a "Stock Move" whatever it is actually doing.

Interesting topic, even if unrelated to the original thread ! Not least as we have to try to prepare new drivers for all these odd expressions that may be thrown at them from time to time. I specifically recollect some "issues" with the expression "stock and crew" refering to an exchange of two operators with their respective trains. Some lines simply refer to it by way of the relevant reforms and never use the expression. It has caused a proposed swap of trains to be missed more than once because the (somewhat antiquated) expression was not understood.

I think there's actually a very simple reason for everything else getting the 'Special' TD, but I won't put my foot in it just yet - hopefully someone who really knows their stuff will be along to reveal all....


(TD = Train Description. The signalling system on much of LU (particularly in the era you are referring to) uses the TD system which also feeds the information displayed on the platform indicators.)