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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2010 9:41:06 GMT
When I got to Rayners Lane this morning, the driver announced that the train to Baker St was going to run fast, and, apart from a short wait at Wembley Park (where the doors didn't open), it did indeed take the fast track to Finchley Road! I wasn't complaining, but it's very unusual. Any particular reason?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2010 14:48:08 GMT
When I got to Rayners Lane this morning, the driver announced that the train to Baker St was going to run fast, and, apart from a short wait at Wembley Park (where the doors didn't open), it did indeed take the fast track to Finchley Road! I wasn't complaining, but it's very unusual. Any particular reason? When I left this morning, we had trains running 20+ late on the Met, this was due to severe icing on the current rails at SOT. I'm not sure if this new timetable has fast trains ex Uxbridge, if not, it could have been sent down the fast to help with getting it on its booked path or for any number of reasons by my colleague who was working this morning! ;D
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 11, 2010 21:42:00 GMT
There was the odd semi-fast Uxbridge I remember. Sometimes gaps in the service see strange services running. I remember seeing a Aldgate-Amersham all stations! That would have been a loooong run!
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Post by Chris M on Jan 12, 2010 14:46:30 GMT
I remember seeing a Aldgate-Amersham all stations! That would have been a loooong run! I could have been worse. You could have been doing Cardiff-Plymouth all stations on a Class 143 pacer
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 12, 2010 17:54:04 GMT
Doesn't bear thinking about Chris!
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Post by ruislip on Jan 13, 2010 3:45:48 GMT
There was the odd semi-fast Uxbridge I remember. They were very common in the 70s--running fast between both Rayners Lane and Harrow on the Hill to Finchley Road.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 13, 2010 4:37:25 GMT
The old line diagrams at Finchley Road showed testament to this.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2010 8:14:48 GMT
and many trains didn't stop at Harrow-on-the-Hill. There is a youtube video to prove it!
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Post by johnb2 on Jan 13, 2010 10:46:22 GMT
Slightly OT I know, but when I used to commute Pinner to Euston Sq in the early '70s there were regular rush hour non-stoppers from North Harrow to Finchley Rd and return.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2010 16:12:16 GMT
Thats was standard I believe, also on the Uxbridge branch with West Harrow-Finchley Road non-stop.
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Post by Harsig on Jan 13, 2010 16:15:36 GMT
Thats was standard I believe, also on the Uxbridge branch with West Harrow-Finchley Road non-stop. I believe it was actually Rayners Lane - Finchley Road non stop, and going even further back in history it was Eastcote - Finchley Road non stop.
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Post by ruislip on Jan 13, 2010 22:30:51 GMT
Thats was standard I believe, also on the Uxbridge branch with West Harrow-Finchley Road non-stop. I believe it was actually Rayners Lane - Finchley Road non stop, and going even further back in history it was Eastcote - Finchley Road non stop. 1) How long ago was that--before or after the Piccadilly was extended to Uxbridge from South Harrow? 2) I have a 114 bus schedule from the 70s stating that the peak-hour shuttles it operated between Ruislip Lido and Ruislip Station were designed to connect to and from the Metropolitan's semifast trains to the city.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2010 23:47:58 GMT
Mrfs would be the man to ask, I'm sure he has the relavent WTT(s). There were all stations trains from Rayners Lane to Aldgate in 1940 calling at all stations; I mean ALL stations, Neasden, Swiss Cottage et al!....
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Post by Harsig on Jan 14, 2010 0:09:52 GMT
Mrfs would be the man to ask, I'm sure he has the relavent WTT(s). I've 1950 timetable (WTT No. 130) which shows that SB Semi Fats trains ran non-stop from Eastcote to Finchley Road, while a 1962 timetable (WTT No. 197) shows only Rayners Lane to Finchley Road non-stop.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 14, 2010 1:15:55 GMT
I do have the WTTs - but I've been a little bit busy (and its the Met.) - I'll chase up when I get chance.
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Post by ruislip on Jan 14, 2010 3:23:10 GMT
Mrfs would be the man to ask, I'm sure he has the relavent WTT(s). There were all stations trains from Rayners Lane to Aldgate in 1940 calling at all stations; I mean ALL stations, Neasden, Swiss Cottage et al!.... I remember reading about that. That seems to be the only time that more Mets reversed at Rayners Lane than Piccies.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2010 13:32:41 GMT
According to my WTT notes:
05.06.50 - WTT 128 - Semi fasts in peaks non-stop Eastcote - Finchley Road in the peak direction of travel (don't forget that this then included Saturdays morning and midday). The total stock requirements for this were increased by 1xP6 and 3xP8.
28.06.54 - 'Fast' trains also to stop at Rayners Lane in the morning peak.
20.09.54 - 'Fast' trains also to stop at Rayners Lane in the evening peak.
15.07.74 - Because of severe shortage of guards and many cancellations (not only on the Met - the Bakerloo and Northern were far worse!) all Uxbridge fasts to stop at West Harrow and Harrow-on-the-Hill.
When the staff situation had eased, there was no going back to the previous non-stopping and 'fast' trains continued to call at West Harrow and Harrow.
28.09.03 - Abolition of 'fast' Uxbridge trains.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2010 14:25:09 GMT
Would those trains be for slightly portly people only? ;D
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 14, 2010 17:35:37 GMT
Ha ha! Fast Uxbridge trains used to use platform 1 at Harrow until the link was taken out.
I guess the F stock ran the fast services after its transfer in the early 50s?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 14, 2010 19:35:22 GMT
Hmm. Looking through the WTTs there were 5 SB, am peak and 5 NB pm peak - all in WTT 128 and all SE - there were none enumerated for SO.
More to follow, as I've got the early 50's Met. pile next to the 'pooter.
By June 1952 there were 7 in each peak direction - 1 SB being F Stock, but 4 NB being F Stock all MF, none on Sats. Everything that wasn't an F is a P (½½ P6/P8).
Nov. '52 same as June (unsurprisingly). June '53 same as Nov. '52.
June '54 note changed to 'does not stop at West Harrow' for SB (Rayners added) and same as before in all other respects.
September '54 the same, but with Rayners added the other way.
So; as you can see it wasn't a given that the 'Tanks' were on the Uxbridge fasts.
I shall go and have a quick browse in the outer reaches of the Met. to see if anything else interesting turns up.
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 15, 2010 16:46:14 GMT
Looking further into this and in the 1958/59 three letter TD era, the 1958 SB am peak had 7 Uxbridge fasts all of them ZCA meaning Aldgate, bar one being a ZCZ (Baker Street); the first two were P6, then an F8 folowed by three P8s and a P6: the F stock was the only ZCZ.
Northbound they were all MZB the first two being P6 again, then two F8s, two P8s and another F8.
Of interest with the TDs MZB seems to be reserved for the Uxbridge trains ex-Aldgate with this stopping pattern - Aldgate starters in the morning peak without this stopping pattern were BBA.
The jigsaw is slowly being completed as in UxBridge Baker Street All stations, Main Zero UxBridge and Zero City Zero and Zero City Aldgate.
I've been puzzling on this one on and off for nearly 10 years! Progress on the TD front!
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 15, 2010 19:09:40 GMT
The F stock only worked on the peak hours services mainly. I never understood this! The seating on the F stock was similar to the O/P cars, just the transverse seats were at the ends of the cars. Surely the greater seating capacty of the F stock would have been a good thing?
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Post by 1938 on Jan 15, 2010 22:21:45 GMT
The F stock only worked on the peak hours services mainly. I never understood this! The seating on the F stock was similar to the O/P cars, just the transverse seats were at the ends of the cars. Surely the greater seating capacty of the F stock would have been a good thing? If my memory serves me right the F Stock were people movers similar to the C Stock, therefore the ideal stock to run in the peaks.
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 16, 2010 0:02:48 GMT
I'll have a look on F stock allocations and depot working in the 1958 WTT - as even though it is Met, I have a soft spot for that particular WTT!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 16, 2010 6:34:46 GMT
Indeed, the F stock were excellent for crowds apparently. Potentially though this could have been because of the door layout...3 double against 2 double and a single for the O/P stock. Begs the question which could shift the crowds quicker; F or C...
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 16, 2010 7:42:16 GMT
I'll have a look on F stock allocations and depot working in the 1958 WTT - as even though it is Met, I have a soft spot for that particular WTT! F Stock only operated in 8-car sets on the Met main. My recollection is that 8-car trains did not operate in the off-peak because of the platform staffing issues. I know this was the case on the DR. 8-car trains needed what we would call assisted dispatch. I imagine it was true on the Met tunnel section too. Thus F Stock was confined to the peaks.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 16, 2010 10:39:12 GMT
That's understandable. Some 7 car F stocks also ran I think. I would assume with a trailer removed.
Ben I would have thought it would be a close thing. They had the same number of doors but the F stock doors were much more narrow, although the F stock had two extra cars!
My guess, the F stock!
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 16, 2010 13:50:08 GMT
Yes, in the 1958 WTT the F stock was limited to the peaks - however there are a couple of very late starters on Saturdays (not for the lunchtime peak) - Trains 25 (10.14pm) and 26 (10.29pm) off Uxbridge Sidings: 25 stabled back there at 2.2am and 26 stabled in Neasden at 1.1am.
I did wonder if this was something for late night theatre traffic [1], but it appears not; although 25 did perform a 'sweeping up' operation on its second SB run - after Neasden it swapped to the Bakerloo and then called at all stations Neasden to Finchley Road, it was then the 1.20am NB staff from Baker Street to Uxbridge Sidings.
[1] 25 was the 10.27½ ex Ux, 11.18½ ex BkS and the 12.1½ ex Ux; 26 was the 10.42½ ex Ux, 11.40½ ex BkS and the 12.30½ ex Ux to Wembley Park, stabling at Neasden. I wonder if the extra capacity was thought to be 'a good thing' for the late trains off Baker Street.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 16, 2010 14:12:33 GMT
That's probably a fair assumption M. It may have helped with the theatre traffic too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2010 11:08:25 GMT
Just realised I didn't say thanks for the answers: so, thanks!
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