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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2009 17:35:12 GMT
Anybody know what happened this morning to the service between Ealing Common and Ealing Bdwy from around 10.15 to 10.50?.No trains,incorrect announcements.At one point they said train in seven minutes.Stand back from the platform edge etc etc.
Hooray- but then whoops '' Not In Service''Loads of PA about the Jubilee line. Sorry don't want to know about that I wanna go to Ealing Broadway,please. 35 mins wait for a train, on a freezing platform with no waiting room.
Was it connected to some signal failure at Acton Town earlier?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2009 22:35:27 GMT
You normally hear staff make a PA about getting the bus from outside if you have more than ten minutes to wait for an Ealing Broadway train. I take it that didn't happen?
There was a signal failure at Acton Town, added about twenty minutes to my morning journey today.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2009 23:00:42 GMT
No nothing about buses.
However when you are told there will be a train in 7 mins you hang on,but then when it came it was a''Not In Service''.
I suppose I could have walked it,but thats not the point.
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Post by happybunny on Dec 23, 2009 15:52:49 GMT
There was a signal failure on the EB... at Acton, it was a Picc problem but I believe it meant the Picc's were using the local.. thus affecting Districts.
Regarding no info at Ealing Common, remember the staff there (just one or two) would not necessarily have known there was a gap in the service unless someone from service control informed them? They are busy selling tickets, maybe having their break etc. They don't sit there with there eyes glued on trackernet making sure there are no gaps in the service !
Did you think to press the help point at any time? Or to go up to the gateline to seek assistance?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2009 18:09:21 GMT
Actually I did.They were very nice but the info was still incorrect.
Thats when they said a train in 7mins and it turned out to be a ''not in service''
Thanks for the info about the signal probs on the Picc.
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Post by happybunny on Dec 23, 2009 18:31:51 GMT
landau1945... the problem is they were probably under the impression that the train was 'in service'...
Let me explain, each train carries a TD or Train Description. This is assigned to a train by the signaler, and it is USUALLY the destination of the train. The TD is what appears on the platform DMI's and trackernet (the LU internal system) gets some of its data from TD's. Typical TD's include 'Tower Hill' or 'Ealing Broadway' for example. Now the train which you experienced that was not in service was most likely defective (going by the time and the fact that there was about 4 trains went defective that morning). On the SSR the 'Not In Service' TD is very rarely used by signalmen due to the fact that when a train is assigned that TD the automated signaling system will no longer send that train anywhere. Instead the signalman will have to *shock horror* signal it ! So therefor its given the TD of where it is going anyway so the computer sends it there automatically. In this case this was Ealing Broadway!
So when the staff checked the system they just saw an Ealing Broadway train, they had no reason to believe it was not in service.
Hope this helps. Sometimes staff are as much in the dark as punters!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2009 19:42:22 GMT
only certain locations have the facilty to put up a SPECIAL t/d it is no longer used and as happybunny has explained the programme machines will not reconise this code usually even if the train is out of service it is still given the correct t/d for its destination this being either ES Ealing Broadway then Depot (Ealing Stow) or EC Ealing Common or BS Barking Sidings or U Upminster
the failure at Acton Town was WL90 with a frozen trainstop due to a leaking lid which let water in and it froze.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2009 15:51:17 GMT
Thanks everybody.I continue to learn more every time about the LUL systems.
The only thing I find a bit disconcerting is the remark about staff knowing as much as or as little as the punters.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2009 22:12:59 GMT
Don't worry Landau, in Ireland it is much the same. If there is a big failure some where the staff on the ground might not know what is happening several miles away.
Just the other night while waiting for a train I heard the Station Operative on duty tell a girl that the Portlaoise train would be the next train to her platform. Now I had already recieved a text message from control saying that the train had been cancelled due to failure of the train. While the information was sent out it doesn't always get to the right people.
I was on the phone at the time trying to arrange getting the train back to its home depot at Laois Traincare.
Irish Underground
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 31, 2009 12:25:27 GMT
only certain locations have the facilty to put up a SPECIAL t/d it is no longer used and as happybunny has explained the programme machines will not reconise this code usually even if the train is out of service it is still given the correct t/d for its destination this being either ES Ealing Broadway then Depot (Ealing Stow) or EC Ealing Common or BS Barking Sidings or U Upminster the failure at Acton Town was WL90 with a frozen trainstop due to a leaking lid which let water in and it froze. One of the major failings of P/MC working is that it didn't cater effectively for defective trains. In theory it should be possible to add an 'extra train' to the timetable but that of course still requires a legitimate description to get a route and 'special' isn't legitimate in that regard. However, 'extra train' has had its own problems for many years with regard to 'storages' so even if 'special' descriptions could be legitimised there would still be issues of trains running 'out of turn' and P/MCs 'losing numbers' etc. In terms of defective trains perhaps the railway is not as efficient now as it was when P/MC technology was developed in the 1950s and let's not forget that the Picc & District P/MCs are approaching 50 years in service. As in all things I expect that on balance the expense of additional non-safety circuitry to cater for defective train routing would never have been justified and probably still can't be. I have no doubt that the issue would have been discussed more than once, in signalling terms very little, if anything, demands no attention when planning enhancements and upgrades. Actually I do wonder if any trials were ever conducted in this regard. |
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