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Post by ruislip on Mar 20, 2008 0:16:13 GMT
Did reversing there begin in 1967, as that was the date the current station opened? If that is the case, prior to that were the majority of in-town reversers scheduled to Charing Cross (today's Embankment) or Mansion House? I read in Piers Connor's book about R stock that Charing Cross was a common Sunday reversing point as late as 1959.
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Post by 21146 on Mar 20, 2008 0:53:13 GMT
Remember Mansion House had two bay roads (one north of the EB main) and the other centre bay was accessible from both directions. The cabin code was "E.I." which defies more recent LT/LU logic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 8:22:19 GMT
I recall reading that a major reason for rebuilding Tower Hill was that a significant number of eastbound passengers wanted to go beyond Mansion House to get to Cannon Street or Monument.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 20, 2008 10:00:27 GMT
Yes, thats what I heard. Office building moved east! The reversing facilities at Tower Hill did not come into use in Jan '68 although as ruislip says the new station opened in Feb '67.
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Post by ruislip on Mar 20, 2008 17:02:04 GMT
I recall reading that a major reason for rebuilding Tower Hill was that a significant number of eastbound passengers wanted to go beyond Mansion House to get to Cannon Street or Monument. 1)In those days, at least the Underground Guide had a disclaimer stating that passengers from west of Earl's Court who wanted to travel east thereof should take the first train and change there if necessary. 2) When were reversers booked to Charing Cross, and when did this set-up end? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 20, 2008 17:17:52 GMT
Charing Cross (Embankment) reversers must have been a real nightmare! There is only a simple crossover there, at least Mansion House had 2 bay roads!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 19:00:13 GMT
IIRC when Tower Hill first opened at its current location the current bay platform (2) was used as the Westbound, the current Westbound (platform 1) not having been completed.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 21, 2008 0:58:43 GMT
I didn't know that, but I can imagine that may have been the case! The Westbound tracks finished and the tracks altered as such. It would explain why terminal facilites came nearly a year later!
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Post by DrOne on Mar 21, 2008 23:41:34 GMT
(Without straying too far off line) Seeing how recently the arrangements at Tower Hill were made I wonder why such a useful track/platform arrangement wasn't instituted at Moorgate when it was rebuit?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 22, 2008 1:06:11 GMT
IIRC when Tower Hill first opened at its current location the current bay platform (2) was used as the Westbound, the current Westbound (platform 1) not having been completed. That is true - somewhere I've got the perils for the opening of Tower Hill (first stage) and (second stage). There's also a hardback District and Piccadilly WTT charting the changes at Mark Lane/Tower Hill though if I remember correctly my database says 'booked Tower Hill reversers do it at Mansion House' (the WTT itself in question has (also IIRC) a pasted in timetable notice that is more concerned with the removal of 5 reversers at Wood Green during the evening peak than the change of mileage between Mark Lane and Tower Hill (the first)... Watch this space.. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 22, 2008 3:30:27 GMT
Righty-ho: been digging in the LU library:
Supplement to Traffic Circular No 4 (1967) - opening of Tower Hill Station (first stage) - operative from Sunday 5th February.
B. Station
B1. - For the first stage of the commissioning of the new station, two through lines only are provided (east and westbound platforms). The reversing bay will be provided at stage II.
B2. - The westbound platform provides temporary facilities only and is surfaced with timber.
(can't find stage 2 peril - which must be the insertion and diversion of various bits)
Supplement to Traffic Circular No 45 (1967) introduction of reversing facilities at Tower Hill - operative from Sunday 10th December 1967.
So, by extrapolation, the 'new' Tower Hill opened 560 feet east of the 'old' Tower Hill on 5/2/67 - the reversing siding was brought into use 10/12/67.
The District and Piccadilly WTT (92) was reissued on 16/10/67 with the rider on the front cover 'Until further notice trains shown to reverse at Tower Hill do so instead at Mansion House forming their scheduled westbound workings'. I was conflating my memories - the removal of 5 evening reversers at Wood Green was for the previous WTT (91).
Now for the second part of the question - When was Charing Cross removed from the timetable galley?
Well, it's not there in WTT 92.. **wanders off to look at ancient WTTs**
Charing Cross is not present in the Timetable galley for any day apart from Sundays in District and Picc TT 77 (28/07/57) - this is the earliest 1950s 7-days-of-week timetable I can lay my hands on - there is then a gap in my collection that has two Sundays only TTs 73 (26/9/54) 60 (29/5/49) - Charing Cross is present on the list; then another gap until Weekdays (Mon - Sat) TT 47 (6/5/46) - incidentally this was the last District TT to be issued with all the old non-stopping codes (single letters West of Aldgate East, double letters East of Aldgate East) Charing Cross is not present in this weekday timetable galley.
Charing Cross is also notably absent from the Weekdays TT No 17 (28/12/38), but is present in Sundays only WTT 15 (8/5/38) - this pattern also repeats itself in Metropolitan District Railway TT No 107 - (4/7/32 - extension of the Picc to South Harrow) - this is a 7-days-of-the-week timetable: Charing Cross only appears on the Sunday part of the timetable, rather than the Saturdays Excepted/Saturdays Only - looks like Charing Cross has been a Sundays only reversing point for an awfully long time!
Anyway - returning more towards the thrust of your question - Charing Cross had booked reversers on a Sunday up until the introduction of WTT 90 on 11/10/65, Charing Cross continued to appear in the Sundays Only part of the timetable until WTT 92 came in on 16/10/67 and it was then removed. With the introduction of WTT 90 all the reversers moved to Mansion House.
EDIT: I've also found a yellow peril from 1968 which details the 'Automatic Control of Signalling and Reversing Facilities at Charing Cross with supervision from Earl's Court Regulating Room. Patently, this date sfrom when ChX is only really to be used when the service has gone chest-uppermost. The transfer of booked reversers to Mansion House in order to allow the stagework for this makes some form of chronological sense. I'll peruse the R stock book in bed... <yawn> ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 5:57:33 GMT
I didn't know that, but I can imagine that may have been the case! The Westbound tracks finished and the tracks altered as such. It would explain why terminal facilites came nearly a year later! Because of restricted space, the works had to be staged. After two platforms at the new station had been brought into use, the old station could be demolished, and this gave space to lay in the extra track for the third platform. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 9:55:35 GMT
I didn't know that, but I can imagine that may have been the case! The Westbound tracks finished and the tracks altered as such. It would explain why terminal facilites came nearly a year later! Because of restricted space, the works had to be staged. After two platforms at the new station had been brought into use, the old station could be demolished, and this gave space to lay in the extra track for the third platform. That makes sense, the track heading out of the current westbound runs through part of where the westbound platform at the old Tower Hill would have been (the old eastbound platform is intact and can be quite easily seen from a passing train). |
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