Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 0:38:06 GMT
Now that Crossrail construction has started in earnest, has the final platform-level and track-level layout at Whitechapel been published? I haven't seen any recent references to the track-level works that would be needed and would like to know what the final decision was on reversing facilities at the station.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 2:06:17 GMT
Whitechapel will be one large simple island platform with an emergency crossover at each end to reverse trains in the platform. The sidings and all other trackwork will go.
There will be escalator shafts where the current middle tracks are down to the Crossrail platforms.
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Nov 11, 2009 8:10:00 GMT
so there isnt going to be a middle track like White City
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 11, 2009 8:19:07 GMT
Sadly not. It's crazy that no extra platform is to be provided. There is a thread on the District line page. Have a quick look at that.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 11, 2009 8:20:20 GMT
No; just emergency crossovers, there simply won't be space for anything else, N 198 will bite the dust  - which is more saddening than the demise of the A stock . *puts tin hat on and runs away very fast* |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 11, 2009 9:26:48 GMT
I'll take the bait...  Why is N 198 special? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 11, 2009 14:15:16 GMT
As I posted in another thread, what's strange is that from 13 December all timetabled moves at Whitechapel are through platforms 2-3, which will go under the new arrangement.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 11, 2009 20:27:41 GMT
No; just emergency crossovers, there simply won't be space for anything else, N 198 will bite the dust N198 is being reduced to 14 working levers, so it isn't the end completely. |
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Post by citysig on Nov 11, 2009 20:59:29 GMT
As I posted in another thread, what's strange is that from 13 December all timetabled moves at Whitechapel are through platforms 2-3, which will go under the new arrangement. From 13 December the H&C won't use Whitechapel as a booked reversing facility, and so all trains will be routed through the middle roads. The reason it's platforms 2 and 3 is because on that date, platforms 2 and 3 will still be the middle platforms, and they will still be available. Later timetables (after platforms 2 and 3 are gone) will obviously have all Whitechapel trains calling at the new platform numbers. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 23:38:46 GMT
Will the bridge over the Overground be modified in any way, or will the spans for the center tracks simply be paved over when the platforms are renewed?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 12, 2009 1:17:59 GMT
I'll take the bait... Why is N 198 special? Well judging by Tom's comment: N198 is being reduced to 14 working levers, so it isn't the end completely. I think it's safe to say N198 refers to the frame used by the signaller at Whitechapel. |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 12, 2009 6:05:44 GMT
It's the end of an era, I began my LT/LU career at Whitechapel Signal (New Works) depot in 1977 and had two happy years there before transferring to Earl's Court Telephone Section. I don't know but I assume that Tube Lines vacated Whitechapel and moved to Stratford Market Depot, presumably the station will be remodelled and the signal depot may disappear.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 12, 2009 7:47:30 GMT
I'll take the bait... Why is N 198 special? Well judging by Tom's comment: N198 is being reduced to 14 working levers, so it isn't the end completely. I think it's safe to say N198 refers to the frame used by the signaller at Whitechapel. It is indeed - that is a heartening bit of news, not vanishing completely. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 12, 2009 15:28:34 GMT
As I posted in another thread, what's strange is that from 13 December all timetabled moves at Whitechapel are through platforms 2-3, which will go under the new arrangement. From 13 December the H&C won't use Whitechapel as a booked reversing facility, and so all trains will be routed through the middle roads. The reason it's platforms 2 and 3 is because on that date, platforms 2 and 3 will still be the middle platforms, and they will still be available. Later timetables (after platforms 2 and 3 are gone) will obviously have all Whitechapel trains calling at the new platform numbers. Sorry, I don't see the "reason" in your post. Are you saying that middle platforms 2&3 will be exclusively timetabled while work is done on outside platforms 1&4, then swapping to use the outer platforms only in the future? |
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Nov 20, 2009 21:04:01 GMT
So when is the shutdown for the work at Whitechapel, is it this christmas or next?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 20, 2009 22:14:48 GMT
So when is the shutdown for the work at Whitechapel, is it this christmas or next? What makes you think a Christmas shutdown is required?  The work at Whitechapel (and West Ham in tandem) will be carried out in stages, with only weekend shutdowns required. As far as the plans go that I've seen, we'll use the inner platforms 2&3 initially whilst the track on the outer platforms (currently platforms 1&4) is reconstructed with new track, then, as they are connected up for through running (probably over a weekend shutdown - one weekend for each road), we'll switch to using the outside roads (currently platforms 1&4). There'll be a new crossover that'll need installing to the west of the station, so that'll require a couple of weekends, and the current crossover at the east end of the station will most likely be renewed too - so another couple of weekends there. The rest of the work can done overnight or during the traffic day, as appropriate to the work being done. |
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Nov 20, 2009 23:09:58 GMT
i thought someone said in another thred that it would be an end of year/christmas shutdown
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Post by citysig on Nov 21, 2009 0:36:59 GMT
Sorry, I don't see the "reason" in your post. Are you saying that middle platforms 2&3 will be exclusively timetabled while work is done on outside platforms 1&4, then swapping to use the outer platforms only in the future? Without knowing the detailed order of works at Whitechapel, I cannot say whether the work will be carried out as you suggest. However, what I was getting at is that as far as timetabling goes, at least to begin with Whitechapel will be as it is today - but with no reversers. So it is simply that all trains have been timetabled as "through" services and booked via the middle platforms. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Nov 21, 2009 1:00:48 GMT
Note in most Timetable's : Signal Operators may vary the routeing and platform working of trains in the best interests of the service.
Until the two platforms and signals have been taken out of use I would expect the Signal Operators to use all routes.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 21, 2009 13:21:26 GMT
So when is the shutdown for the work at Whitechapel, is it this christmas or next? What makes you think a Christmas shutdown is required? Neither. West Ham has to be commissioned by the end of 2010 and no decommissioning will happen at Whitechapel until West Ham is commissioned. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 21, 2009 18:52:44 GMT
Why is it the sidings wont be reinstalled after the platform and track works have gone ahead? Are they only 6 cars long? Don't have any documents to hand!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2009 19:48:40 GMT
Just had a look at the new H&C/Circle WTT No.23 - there are no scheduled Whitechapel reversers on any day - shall we open a book to see when the first (unscheduled) one takes place from 13/12/09 ??
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 21, 2009 21:10:39 GMT
Well there won't be any scheduled reversers as the WTT's have been written with Whitechapel's planned layout changes in mind.
As for it's use when there's a problem - if it's still available, and appropriate to use it, Service control will use it.
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Post by citysig on Nov 21, 2009 22:21:48 GMT
Just had a look at the new H&C/Circle WTT No.23 - there are no scheduled Whitechapel reversers on any day - shall we open a book to see when the first (unscheduled) one takes place from 13/12/09 ?? If you like. My money is firmly on the morning of 13/12/09 ;D (Not fair really as I can fix the result  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2009 23:28:23 GMT
As indeed I "fixed" the first 1972 MkII to Watford Junction many years ago - and apologies for going off topic!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 11:41:57 GMT
Why is it the sidings wont be reinstalled after the platform and track works have gone ahead? Are they only 6 cars long? Don't have any documents to hand! No, Whitechapel 25 siding is very long. I suspect you'd get an 8 car S stock in there comfortably ! I was given to understand when asking this, that when reconstruction is complete that the Westbound track would occupy what is presently 25 siding and that the present track adjacent to Platform 4 would be part of a wider platform. (If that isn't the case then loss of the siding is a poor bit of planning!) Whitechapel 26 siding will only take a 6 car C stock and it's use restricts Platform 1 to reversing trains only. So without a through track adjacent to platform 2 it would shut you down! Retention would be worthy only for a Tamping machine, couple of battery loco's or engineering plant. But it wasn't shown on the diagrams I've seen as remaining. Though I'd have thought it useful even for that ! |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 22, 2009 16:30:45 GMT
Its been a while since I was there, but from what I remember ther are fairly sharp 's' bends to get into the outer platforms from the tunnel to the west. If the siding is to become a platform road, and everything inbetween a platform then surely a higher speed restriction will be present on entering the platform? Also how wide does Whitechapel's platform need to be? Its already taking the centre tracks and existing platforms. Seems a bit over kill. Surely the way to go is to increase flexibility of the railway back to former levels, not restrict it further?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 17:39:06 GMT
Also how wide does Whitechapel's platform need to be? Its already taking the centre tracks and existing platforms. Seems a bit over kill. Surely the way to go is to increase flexibility of the railway back to former levels, not restrict it further? The filling in of the centre tracks is to accomodate the escalator shaft to the crossrail platform. a bank of 2 or 3 esclators needs a bit of room. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 22, 2009 19:21:22 GMT
Surely the way to go is to increase flexibility of the railway back to former levels, not restrict it further? It is, at least in theory. The problem is that the existing infrastructure is too cramped to permit the same amount of flexibility and still be in compliance with modern standards. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 0:23:43 GMT
Its been a while since I was there, but from what I remember ther are fairly sharp 's' bends to get into the outer platforms from the tunnel to the west. If the siding is to become a platform road, and everything inbetween a platform then surely a higher speed restriction will be present on entering the platform? Also how wide does Whitechapel's platform need to be? Its already taking the centre tracks and existing platforms. Seems a bit over kill. Surely the way to go is to increase flexibility of the railway back to former levels, not restrict it further? Well the whole thing is pretty daft, the flexibility of Whitechapel is rather more useful and important than a bank of escalators from platform level ! However at present there is a higher permitted speed to run into 25 siding than is actually permitted for accessing platform 4 ! |
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