Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Mar 7, 2008 1:17:55 GMT
Have Metronet started using the wrong grease again? Or have they simply run out?
Anyone using the District today (well, yesterday now) must have surely noticed the noise every time a train got near a bend........the Whitechapel & Victoria areas were particularly bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by c5 on Mar 7, 2008 1:21:23 GMT
Have Metronet started using the wrong grease again? Or have they simply run out? Anyone using the District today (well, yesterday now) must have surely noticed the noise every time a train got near a bend........the Whitechapel & Victoria areas were particularly bad. Victoria EB is noticeable. I suggest a call to the Service Controller or report it to your DMT. If no action, follow it up with a What's Wrong form. I suspect any local residents will also be getting in touch!  |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Mar 7, 2008 1:28:56 GMT
Only one problem with reporting it - it's affecting the whole line, not just those two locations!
|
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Mar 7, 2008 8:36:11 GMT
As Colin says it's across pretty much the whole of the central area - both roads!
I don't think I've ever seen so many punters with fingers in ears - and it's not only the station areas of course - pretty well anywhere with any type of curve is now screeching.
It's been reported - and I reported it again on Tuesday evening (and again on Wenesday); it's suspected that the metal filings that are resulting from the lack of lubrication are the cause of the failures on OB27 - maybe the signalling department would like to add their weight to the call for action?
Maybe they'll address it over the weekend whilst the blockade is on?
|
|
PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
Posts: 113
|
Post by PGtrips on Mar 7, 2008 13:51:28 GMT
Have Metronet started using the wrong grease again? Or have they simply run out? So are there a lot of flange greasers on LU in general terms, then? I know there have been issues on NR in recent times over flange lubrication - especially with the oh so lovely 142/3/4s (try coming out of Bradford Interchange towards Leeds with one for some real fingers in ears excitement) and there was actually a derailment at Epsom a couple of years ago caused by wheel climb due to lack of lubrication. But I hadn't considered that this would be an issue on LU up until now - a poor oversight on my part given the amount of curvature on the system. On the District, what kind of lubricators are they and how often are they spaced and - crucuial question given the current spate of squealing - how often do they need to be refilled with grease? Any background info on this issue much appreciated. |
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Mar 7, 2008 14:43:05 GMT
Don't mention those things! Anyone who retains their hearing after a trip on one is a better man than I!
As for ride quality, when I caught one on the 0648 off Doncaster daily, I quickly learned to have breakfast AFTER the trip, not BEFORE.
|
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Mar 7, 2008 14:53:35 GMT
So are there a lot of flange greasers on LU in general terms, then? Yes!! and there was actually a derailment at Epsom a couple of years ago caused by wheel climb due to lack of lubrication. And similar has occured on LU too. IIRC the Camden Town derailment a few years ago cited this as the cause following work on the points. On the District, what kind of lubricators are they and how often are they spaced and - crucuial question given the current spate of squealing - how often do they need to be refilled with grease? I'm afraid I have no idea of the type they are - and it looks like they need refilling more often than they have been recently  !! Maybe our track experts can enlighten on these points. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Mar 7, 2008 16:05:42 GMT
the Whitechapel & Victoria areas were particularly bad. [/quote]
Bow Road too. This is surely a breach of both passengers' and staffs' health & safety?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 17:55:13 GMT
i can confirm that due to " snowing " two tracks in the aldgate area do keep failling as this is due to the rails being cut to shreads this shorts out the blockjoints and causing track failures i hear the squeal every day so far since tuesday as i travel into victoria from kent and it does hurt your ears after a while standing on the westbound and seeing a train coming into the platform i haev noticed its only on the start of the platform at victoria where the problem is for about the 1/4 of the way down the platform. the same thing happened at monument about 2 years ago now i think it was and that was the greaser running dry
snowing = small metal filings
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 18:36:58 GMT
And similar has occured on LU too. IIRC the Camden Town derailment a few years ago cited this as the cause following work on the points. Well, a factor. It was a combination of that, the new switch rail (which it turned out had a design problem that was not known until then), the recently reprofiled wheels and wrong (but not at the time obviously so) arrangement of shims. Any one of those things being different might have avoided it, at least according to what I read. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 19:12:04 GMT
Ahhhh,
Last night at Monument whilst waiting for an Upminster service ... I noticed some horrendous out of the ordinary squealling ... didn't realise it was affecting the whole line !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 19:46:00 GMT
Its not just a problem with the District... There is horrendous rail squeal at both Farringdon and Baker Street.
|
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Mar 7, 2008 20:36:08 GMT
[quote author=aspect board=district thread=1204852675 post=1204917124]Ahhhh,
Last night at Monument whilst waiting for an Upminster service ... I noticed some horrendous out of the ordinary squealling ... didn't realise it was affecting the whole line ![/quote] I thought that was you at Monument last evening!!!!! You were looking very chilled - rest ady was it?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 21:37:11 GMT
[I thought that was you at Monument last evening!!!!! You were looking very chilled - rest ady was it? Ahhh, that was you !!! Despite having your light on I couldn't see who was driving, but as you passed level with me, I thought it may have been you ... I could see the driver grinning !!! but your excellent PA was inconclusive as to identifying you ..and i thought it rather late for you to be about  lol !! I was off indeed and tired after a days riding trains, trams and buses in Manchester and surrounding locals  You were squeeling loudly !!! lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2008 21:41:44 GMT
It's been reported - and I reported it again on Tuesday evening (and again on Wenesday); it's suspected that the metal filings that are resulting from the lack of lubrication are the cause of the failures on OB27 - maybe the signalling department would like to add their weight to the call for action? Maybe they'll address it over the weekend whilst the blockade is on? There was a group call over the Connect from the controller this afternoon to tell drivers that the problem had been repeatedly reported to Metronet. No indication of when anything might be done about it, though! I'm not sure the weekend blockade is going to help - isn't it in the wrong place? All the problems seem to be on the Earls Court - Whitechapel section, which was closed last weekend! There were no SATs at Victoria westbound this evening, allegedly this was because the station staff refused to work on the platforms due to the noise. |
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Mar 7, 2008 21:43:01 GMT
On the District, what kind of lubricators are they and how often are they spaced and - crucuial question given the current spate of squealing - how often do they need to be refilled with grease? Any background info on this issue much appreciated. Hope this old thread go towards answering some of your queries. Coincidently something similarly occurred almost a year ago. Anyone seen the movie Groundhog Day? ;D districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=met&action=display&thread=1173948043 |
|
TMBA
you like images? check this out - http://www.flickr.com/photos/upminsterthroughtheyears/sets/
Posts: 364
|
Post by TMBA on Mar 7, 2008 22:10:54 GMT
Bit ironic that the date was also March ;D ;D ;D
|
|
PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
Posts: 113
|
Post by PGtrips on Mar 8, 2008 11:34:44 GMT
Thanks, SK, that thread is very illuminating. It does beg questions about ongoing maintenance of flange greasers. This is clearly not a new issue. There will be climatic change, etc. You would have thought with wheelsets at 10K a pair and evidence of derailments being caused by lack of lubrication, that it would be given a higher priority. As a matter of interest, if a load of trains have to be taken out of service with defective wheelsets due to either flats or excessive wear, and this can be proved to a location, are there penalty clauses in anyone's contract to cover this situation. I.e. if Metronet doesn't fix the greasers and a load of District stock is then off the road, are there any avenues of litigation/compensation available - or as they are now completely skint is this a non-starter? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2008 16:55:31 GMT
Metronet will have to replace damaged wheels at their expense. If they fail to provide enough serviceable stock then they will pay penalties to LU.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2008 23:06:37 GMT
Metronet will have to replace damaged wheels at their expense. If they fail to provide enough serviceable stock then they will pay penalties to LU. Or the situation as it is now.... TfL (Metronet) pay fines to TfL (LU) if TfL (Metronet) fail to provide enough serviceable stock.... completely mad! The only people who benefit are the lawyers! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2008 3:27:17 GMT
One plus point to the squealing is it stops the pi$$heads sleepling on the dead late stablers |
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Mar 24, 2008 22:17:29 GMT
Have there been any irregular service patterns lately? Train speed and frequency can affect the amount of grease being spread on the rails. Another theory is that slow speeds of stacked up trains means that less grease is being applied by the lubricators!
|
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Mar 24, 2008 23:18:16 GMT
i can confirm that due to " snowing " two tracks in the aldgate area do keep failling as this is due to the rails being cut to shreads this shorts out the blockjoints and causing track failures i hear the squeal every day so far since tuesday as i travel into victoria from kent and it does hurt your ears after a while standing on the westbound and seeing a train coming into the platform i haev noticed its only on the start of the platform at victoria where the problem is for about the 1/4 of the way down the platform. the same thing happened at monument about 2 years ago now i think it was and that was the greaser running dry snowing = small metal filings New wheelsets or if a train has just come back from the wheel lathe can cause snowing too... ;D |
|
!! Maybe our track experts can enlighten on these points.
lol !!
