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Post by davidp on Oct 27, 2009 9:14:14 GMT
So we have a nice new (and presumably expensive) platform at Mudchute for terminators from Canary Wharf and beyond, but I've seen no sign that it is going to be used on a regular basis.
It has been used on an ad-hoc basis - I picked up a Stratford bound service from here about 7:30 this morning, but that seemed to be because of a long gap in the service from south of the river.
As well as the expensive, the DLR lost a refuge siding when this platform was built so I presume they do have some plans for it, so does anyone know what they are?
TIA David
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2009 12:49:04 GMT
I believe it will be used regularly after 3 car trains will be introduced next year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2009 21:52:36 GMT
The planning application stated that the third platform was required to "enable additional northbound services to commence from Mudchute station and relieve overcrowding during peak periods."
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Post by abe on Oct 28, 2009 11:41:19 GMT
Does anyone know when the platform was commissioned, and (if different) when it was first used?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 17:03:10 GMT
Not sure of commissioning date (yet - working on it!) but I am assured there are no plans yet to use the bay in normal service, just "as required" for service problems, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2009 20:31:12 GMT
The planning application stated that the third platform was required to "enable additional northbound services to commence from Mudchute station and relieve overcrowding during peak periods". I just wonder what the additional benefit is over turning services at the existing facility just one station to the north at Crossharbour. Is there really that much additional demand from Mudchute alone to justify the expense of another turning facility which is actually within sight of the one just up the track at Crossharbour ?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 16, 2009 1:36:39 GMT
Reversing at Crossharbour is by means of a non-passenger siding so the trains need to be tipped out potentially delaying the following service (this was the case on the most recent occasion I was on a Crossharbour terminator wanting to travel further south). The platform at Mudchute means the the trains do not need to be tipped out and thus do not delay the following service in the same manor - although they do need to cross the northbound line, this (I presume) causes less of a delay.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Nov 16, 2009 19:48:53 GMT
Are there any plans to extend Crossharbour terminators one station down to Mudchute to minimalise time - referring to the points mentioned by Chris
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 21:11:29 GMT
I'd also like to know whether any remodelling is going to take place after Crossharbour siding goes. Crossharbour <-> Mudchute is (IMO) one of the worst parts of the DLR for comfort. I was too young to remember the building of the Lewisham extension but I suppose the old alignment prevented them from getting a good angle. Removing the middle road might give the opportunity to straighten that section a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 21:31:11 GMT
I wasn't aware that the siding at Crossharbour is going? Not on plans I've seen.
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 17, 2009 9:04:53 GMT
Reversing at Crossharbour is by means of a non-passenger siding so the trains need to be tipped out potentially delaying the following service (this was the case on the most recent occasion I was on a Crossharbour terminator wanting to travel further south). The platform at Mudchute means the the trains do not need to be tipped out and thus do not delay the following service in the same manor - although they do need to cross the northbound line, this (I presume) causes less of a delay. Considering the DLR is an entirely automatic railway, is there a need to "tip" trains out to go through such a siding? I know that on LU there is a requirement to do so because of signalling or somesuch. However, wouldn't it be possible to shout "all change" a few times, flash the lights, and then if anyone's still on then tough?!
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Post by Chris M on Nov 17, 2009 9:40:27 GMT
One of the reasons on LU is that there is a lower standard of proof required that the points are secure and the line ahead clear. I don't see why, just by virtue of being an automatic railway, that the DLR would be any different? Certainly it wouldn't affect the possibility of an overcarryee panicing and injuring themselves (or worse) attempting to exit the train.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2009 12:23:29 GMT
I wasn't aware that the siding at Crossharbour is going? Not on plans I've seen. That was poor writing on my part. The siding doesn't look like it could fit a 3 car train and once Stratford-Lewisham goes 3 car too; its use would seem to be very limited. Hence the assumption it will be removed one day.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 17, 2009 12:43:23 GMT
Reversing at Crossharbour is by means of a non-passenger siding so the trains need to be tipped out potentially delaying the following service (this was the case on the most recent occasion I was on a Crossharbour terminator wanting to travel further south). The platform at Mudchute means the the trains do not need to be tipped out and thus do not delay the following service in the same manor - although they do need to cross the northbound line, this (I presume) causes less of a delay. Considering the DLR is an entirely automatic railway, is there a need to "tip" trains out to go through such a siding? I know that on LU there is a requirement to do so because of signalling or somesuch. However, wouldn't it be possible to shout "all change" a few times, flash the lights, and then if anyone's still on then tough?! PA-only disriminates against the hard of hearing and non-English speakers. 'Flashing the lights' is long part of history, witness its disappearance from LU, the fear being that someone trips up at exactly the moment the lights go oout and then sues for ££££££'s. I think it still occurs on buses, a less regulated environment perhaps? I don't see why overstayers can't be carried in and out of reversing sidings and the Bank headshunt - you can't exactly get out between the cars as on LU stock.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 17, 2009 14:10:17 GMT
you can't exactly get out between the cars as on LU stock. The cars all have end doors, "for emergency and depot use" I think one sign on them says.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 17, 2009 18:43:43 GMT
You need a key to open those.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Nov 17, 2009 21:32:56 GMT
Sorry if this constitutes thread drift,BUT..... This is one of those areas where the balance of responsibility has tipped too far,to the detriment not only of the running of the railways,but indicative of the change in thinking in this field over the last 20 years or so. What the last few posts on this thread implicitly posit is a passenger not being aware that a train has terminated,presumably despite audible and visual indications,then disobeying a written instruction to not exit by an unauthorised route. In an ideal world,in event of injury,this passenger shouldn't have a leg to stand on (haha) when it came to claiming damages. Yes,railways are potentially dangerous environments,and the operators do have a duty of care toward their passengers,but must this duty extend to guarding against any possible incompetence,idiocy or even malice on the passengers' part? Surely there should be some kind of trade-off.....whereby if passengers ignore instructions,however conveyed,they absolve the operator from any liability. Surely the passenger also has a duty of care.....to himself at least,if not the rail operator and his fellow passengers? Rant over....
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Post by Chris M on Nov 17, 2009 22:30:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 19:17:02 GMT
Mudchute bay was commissioned from Monday 27 July 2009 with a special train for VIPs run into the bay the following day.
Looking at Crossharbour reversing siding today, I am sure there is room for 3-vehicle trains but at the moment only 2-vehicle trains can use it, as there is only a '2' stopping mark. If it is to made 3, then there is work to be done on it.
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Post by North End on Dec 29, 2009 20:17:18 GMT
One of the reasons on LU is that there is a lower standard of proof required that the points are secure and the line ahead clear. I don't see why, just by virtue of being an automatic railway, that the DLR would be any different? Certainly it wouldn't affect the possibility of an overcarryee panicing and injuring themselves (or worse) attempting to exit the train. The signalling on the DLR is very different from LUL, I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect there's no technical reason for passengers not to be carried into Crossharbour. Obviously there's still the risk of passengers coming to harm -- but then LUL have managed to convince HMRI that trains no longer need to be detrained at Kennington.
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