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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 2:47:57 GMT
(NOTE: I felt that this was best asked in a new thread; if it needs to be asked in the catchall thread, please say so).
Are the emergency couplers on the cab ends of S stock DMs 'handed'? Will they couple to one another and provide emergency comms/main line air/brake release either way round, or do the appropriate ends of the coupling trains ('A' end to 'D' end and vice versa) need to be facing one another?
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 26, 2009 11:19:53 GMT
Interesting question (and a new thread is a good idea )..... because they will have to be able to be compatible with A and C and D stock in emergencies in the short(ish) term. Or is it all down to the presspahns??
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 26, 2009 14:33:38 GMT
Looking at this image, originally posted by [and therefore belonging to] 21146: www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4032588714/in/photostream/I would suggest that S stock merely has a mechanical only emergency wedgelock coupler (ie, no need for presspahns as there are no electrical connections). They can therefore be coupled A to A, D to D or A to D as far as I can see. As for compatibility with other stocks, I'm sure prjb mentioned that an adapter was to be developed and a policy was yet to be decided on how it would be stored/used should a push out be required. Another one for prjb's to do list?? ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 14:37:01 GMT
Looking at this image, originally posted by [and therefore belonging to] 21146: www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4032588714/in/photostream/I would suggest that S stock merely has a mechanical only emergency wedgelock coupler (ie, no need for presspahns as there are no electrical connections). They can therefore be coupled A to A, D to D or A to D as far as I can see. That was what I initially thought too, but despite the apparent mechanical symmetry of the coupler, I wasn't certain just from the visuals. Plus, I wasn't sure if emergency comms would be carried over the coupler, or if the existing procedures regarding Connect handset-to-handset comms would be employed during pushouts. That is a great picture, though! As for compatibility with other stocks, I'm sure prjb mentioned that an adapter was to be developed and a policy was yet to be decided on how it would be stored/used should a push out be required. Another one for prjb's to do list?? ;D ;D Indeed - I wonder how big such an adapter would be and where it would be stored.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 20:07:12 GMT
Indeed - I wonder how big such an adapter would be and where it would be stored. More than likely stored under a seat on A, C and D stock DMs. As these stocks are progressivly scrapped so will the need for the adapters.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 26, 2009 21:47:21 GMT
Hello, sorry for my late arrival! Ok...
There was a plan a few years back to go for a completely new type of coupler and just put up with the pain in the interim (having to have emergency adaptors strategically placed on the railway) but that idea was dropped. What we have now is a standard wedgelock coupler that is compatable with 'A', 'C', and 'D' couplers.
The couplers are not 'handed' and it is possible to couple 'S' to 'S' mechanically and pneumatically but not electrically. In order to achieve through communications a 'communications jumper cable' (Comm's Jumper) must be utilised. This jumper can be connected via the the connectors on the front of the train situated either side of the 'M' door just below the level of the bottom of the window and adjacent to the tail lights. It is a simple case of unscrewing one of the covers and attaching the jumper, although it is necessary to attach the bridging plate (part of the detrainment device) to stand on first. There are two connectors either side of the 'M' door in order to prevent the need to cross the cable over the couplers and create a tripping hazard, so you just pick whichever connector takes your fancy and select the adjacent one on the other train.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 26, 2009 21:50:21 GMT
Incidentally, this thread is actually quite pertinent as we are coupling up 'S' to 'A' for the first time on Wednesday morning. We won't be moving, we just want to make sure at this stage that we can couple without any glitches (which we will!). I will let you know how it goes but you will need to give me a day or so as I am staying overnight in Derby on Wed/Thu.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 26, 2009 21:59:02 GMT
It is a simple case of unscrewing one of the covers and attaching the jumper, although it is necessary to attach the bridging plate (part of the detrainment device) to stand on first. Which way does the door open? Is it not possible to just reach around the door frame to do this? TVM.
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 26, 2009 22:39:56 GMT
Are the couplers the same height? They don't look like they would be?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 23:37:32 GMT
Hello, sorry for my late arrival! Ok... There was a plan a few years back to go for a completely new type of coupler and just put up with the pain in the interim (having to have emergency adaptors strategically placed on the railway) but that idea was dropped. What we have now is a standard wedgelock coupler that is compatable with 'A', 'C', and 'D' couplers. Based on the picture, I expected this to be the case. The couplers are not 'handed' and it is possible to couple 'S' to 'S' mechanically and pneumatically but not electrically. In order to achieve through communications a 'communications jumper cable' (Comm's Jumper) must be utilised. This jumper can be connected via the the connectors on the front of the train situated either side of the 'M' door just below the level of the bottom of the window and adjacent to the tail lights. It is a simple case of unscrewing one of the covers and attaching the jumper, although it is necessary to attach the bridging plate (part of the detrainment device) to stand on first. There are two connectors either side of the 'M' door in order to prevent the need to cross the cable over the couplers and create a tripping hazard, so you just pick whichever connector takes your fancy and select the adjacent one on the other train. Is this cable solely for comms, or does it carry the control signals to release the brakes on the unit 'under tow'? Or is that done solely with pneumatic signalling on the coupler face?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 27, 2009 1:11:58 GMT
It is a simple case of unscrewing one of the covers and attaching the jumper, Will the screwdriver form part of our equipment then? or will it be in the emergency tool box? Surely they could have come up with something that doesn't need unscrewing! Actually, where would we stand in terms of the Electricity at Work Act? Incidentally, this thread is actually quite pertinent as we are coupling up 'S' to 'A' for the first time on Wednesday morning. I hope somebody has a camera in that case!
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Post by 100andthirty on Oct 27, 2009 8:27:27 GMT
if you look carefully on the "full frontal" photos in the Met Line section you'll see the covers for the connector. They are unscrewed rather like jar tops (although wilth less force) plugging in the connectors involved no Electricity at Work issues; the voltage will be very low. This technique is a copy of what has been done on a number of modern fleets.
Of course, the challenge for the engineers was to manage affairs so that push-outs are rare! But one can "never say never"!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2009 22:17:42 GMT
It is a simple case of unscrewing one of the covers and attaching the jumper, although it is necessary to attach the bridging plate (part of the detrainment device) to stand on first. Which way does the door open? Is it not possible to just reach around the door frame to do this? TVM. The door opens inwards towards the drivers console. You could just lean out but this would involve holding on with one hand and doing the connecting with the other which we thought was a bit precarious. So, for safety we will be advising that the bridging plate be used for connecting the Comm's jumper.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2009 22:18:16 GMT
Are the couplers the same height? They don't look like they would be? They are the same height.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2009 22:21:24 GMT
Is this cable solely for comms, or does it carry the control signals to release the brakes on the unit 'under tow'? Or is that done solely with pneumatic signalling on the coupler face? It is solely for Comm's. We can couple 'S' to 'S' both mechanically and pneumatically depending on the defect we are pushing out for. In all honesty though there are not many defects that will require an 'S' to be pushed out. Even a mainline burst on the front unit isn't an immobilising failure on an 'S' as you can drive the train from the leading cab with this type of defect.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2009 22:23:54 GMT
Just really quickly, as I am knackered after spending two days racing between Neasden, Derby, and Nuneaton for various different 'S' related tasks - We coupled car 5117 to car 21100 on Wednesday morning on 29 road in Neasden. The two trains coupled and uncoupled without any issues whatsoever. Colin, I took lots of video and stills!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 22:53:36 GMT
Is this cable solely for comms, or does it carry the control signals to release the brakes on the unit 'under tow'? Or is that done solely with pneumatic signalling on the coupler face? It is solely for Comm's. We can couple 'S' to 'S' both mechanically and pneumatically depending on the defect we are pushing out for. In all honesty though there are not many defects that will require an 'S' to be pushed out. Even a mainline burst on the front unit isn't an immobilising failure on an 'S' as you can drive the train from the leading cab with this type of defect. That's good to know, but that doesn't quite the answer the question of how an assisting unit would release the brakes on the leading unit if the same could not be accomplished from either cab of the leading unit - or is the S stock brake release mechanism designed in such a way that this is unlikely/impossible?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 30, 2009 0:58:08 GMT
It all depends what the defect is that requires an assisting train to be utilised. An assisting 'S' can mechanically couple to another 'S' and then throw air accross and apply/release the brakes accordingly from the healthy train but you would not want to do that if the defective 'S' had a burst of some sort. That said, you will not need to couple to another 'S' for any form of burst.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 30, 2009 1:55:05 GMT
That's good to know, but that doesn't quite the answer the question of how an assisting unit would release the brakes on the leading unit if the same could not be accomplished from either cab of the leading unit - or is the S stock brake release mechanism designed in such a way that this is unlikely/impossible? You don't neccessarily have to control the brakes on the train with the defect - as long as you couple up the good train first, you can release all the brakes on the defective train and use the good train to provide the sole braking for both trains. This is current procedure for certain defects on D stocks, though it does of course leave the driver in the leading cab with no proper emergency brake. Mind you, we are talking absolute worst case scenario here and I don't recall such a situation ever occurring in the 5 years I've been driving.....
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