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Post by londonunderground on Aug 21, 2009 21:36:53 GMT
Upon my daily commute home the other day i boarded a central line train eastbound from the city without looking at the display board. To my surprise as we approached Liverpool street station the train operator informed that the train was terminating at the next station and we must all get out. I was quite bemused by this, i have traveled on the central line for almost 10 years and this has never happened. Soon after i left the train, i asked a member of station staff what was wrong with the train and where it was going. She informed me that it was going into the sidings to reverse due to a fault with the doors. I waited on the westbound platform for the train or train driver to appear and after several trains came in with passengers on board , there was still no sign of the driver or the train. Is this a common occurrence ? Does anyone know where the train driver would have gone? Thanks Tim.   |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 21, 2009 23:31:58 GMT
Liverpool Street reversers were once common in the off peak but in the peak, it is usually to reverse late running trains.
On this occasion, the train, once in the siding, would have had the fault isolated and then returned empty to Ruislip depot with the same driver.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 9:12:57 GMT
As you say Liverpool Street reversers used to be a regular thing but somewhat rare nowadays. I suspect this defective train would have been left in the siding just to get it out of the way and moved back to the depot later in the evening, is there any other way out for the driver who could then go back 'on the cushions'?
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Post by happybunny on Aug 22, 2009 13:32:45 GMT
I remember often when I worked in the West End 6 or 7 years ago travelling on trains from Ealing with Liverpool St destinations
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Post by auxsetreq on Aug 22, 2009 16:10:20 GMT
We used to do Liverpool Street to Marble Arch reversers all day at one time. Ten minutes each way, how boring, nearly as boring as the Epping Ongar tediosities. Yes I know there are those who get all romantic about em, but tedium doesn't even come close to describing doing six trips of those. At least with the Liv- Marble trips you used to see people. Now like the other sidings, used to get rid of duds, turn em short when running late, or engineering works east of The Street, service suspensions etc, so not that rare an occurrence. If I recall correctly there used to be a secret door at the back end of the WB platform that led into the sidings. I used to gaze at it longingly as an escape route to get away from the singing signalman and a boss eyed loon called Robbo, bless, who used to bovver us guards. I don't think it's there anymore, the door that is, so the only way out for a driver is the only way in - on a train.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 16:21:00 GMT
Central Line Working Timetable No.60 (13.01.02) was the first which had no "scheduled" Liverpool Street reversers.
The previous timetable (06.10.97) did have Liverpool Street reversers and was numbered 56. Strangely, there was never a 57, 58 or 59 published.
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Post by ruislip on Aug 22, 2009 17:51:40 GMT
I have WTT56. On M-F there were two noon-time trains (101 and 102) that would leave Ruislip depot, enter service @ Ruislip Gardens, and run to Liverpool St.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 22, 2009 18:32:10 GMT
In the early 80's one WTT had the first two White City off peak stablers(120 & 121) reverse at Liverpool St at 09:00 & 09:15.Needless to say after about a month of chaos a special notice was issued which stabled 120 & 121 at Hainault then back in service around 11:30 & 11:45.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 19:39:32 GMT
a boss eyed loon called Robbo, bless, who used to bovver us guards. I don't think it's there anymore, the door that is, so the only way out for a driver is the only way in - on a train. Yes I remember him, he told me once he was called Christopher Robin. He used to stand near the guards position at Bank looking for a guard who would speak to him, and the worse thing to do with his type was to speak to them, you were mates for life  |
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 22, 2009 19:53:36 GMT
I was at Liverpool Street today 2 hours apart and bizarrely came across 2 Liverpool Street terminators. The first one had the shunt signal and going into siding 2 (the fibreoptic shunt signals are cool!)  Click for full size - Uploaded with plasq's SkitchThe second one I didn't see initially but heard the horn as I was coming down the escalators, but it seemed to go straight on rather than into the siding that the previous one had - is the first siding in a different location? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:01:32 GMT
second one I didn't see initially but heard the horn as I was coming down the escalators, but it seemed to go straight on rather than into the siding that the previous one had - is the first siding in a different location? Both sidings are next to each other if the first train got a 2 he was going into the right hand siding, so presumably the second would have got a 1 and gone into the left hand siding which is a pretty straight route from the eastbound platform. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 0:13:55 GMT
second one I didn't see initially but heard the horn as I was coming down the escalators, but it seemed to go straight on rather than into the siding that the previous one had - is the first siding in a different location? Both sidings are next to each other if the first train got a 2 he was going into the right hand siding, so presumably the second would have got a 1 and gone into the left hand siding which is a pretty straight route from the eastbound platform. Route numbers at Liverpool Street are a bit different than conventional lines. A shunt with route 2 is the siding number 1 (left handside) and a shunt with a number 3 is siding number 2 (right handside). Route 1 is a green/white signal eastbound and you won't see a number displayed. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 23, 2009 2:03:19 GMT
We used to do Liverpool Street to Marble Arch reversers all day at one time. Ten minutes each way, how boring, nearly as boring as the Epping Ongar tediosities. Yes I know there are those who get all romantic about em, but tedium doesn't even come close to describing doing six trips of those. At least with the Liv- Marble trips you used to see people. Now like the other sidings, used to get rid of duds, turn em short when running late, or engineering works east of The Street, service suspensions etc, so not that rare an occurrence. If I recall correctly there used to be a secret door at the back end of the WB platform that led into the sidings. I used to gaze at it longingly as an escape route to get away from the singing signalman and a boss eyed loon called Robbo, bless, who used to bovver us guards. I don't think it's there anymore, the door that is, so the only way out for a driver is the only way in - on a train. I would venture to suggest that the door must still be there somewhere because it led not only to the sidings but also to the signal and tunnel telephone relay rooms, the old two storey P-way accommodation at the platform end of the siding tunnel and was the walking route to reset the siding traction circuit breakers as well. Mind you I haven't been there for many years and that's the end where we demolished the platform relay room and diverted all the telephone cables to make way for new escalators 789, one of many jobs I had a hand in at Liverpool Street in the years before, during and after the Broadgate development. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 23, 2009 2:08:41 GMT
Both sidings are next to each other if the first train got a 2 he was going into the right hand siding, so presumably the second would have got a 1 and gone into the left hand siding which is a pretty straight route from the eastbound platform. Route numbers at Liverpool Street are a bit different than conventional lines. A shunt with route 2 is the siding number 1 (left handside) and a shunt with a number 3 is siding number 2 (right handside). Route 1 is a green/white signal eastbound and you won't see a number displayed. Nothing unconventional about that at all, routes always read from the left. Comparing route numbers and siding or road numbers is like comparing apples and potatoes! |
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Post by auxsetreq on Aug 23, 2009 3:43:12 GMT
We used to do Liverpool Street to Marble Arch reversers all day at one time. Ten minutes each way, how boring, nearly as boring as the Epping Ongar tediosities. Yes I know there are those who get all romantic about em, but tedium doesn't even come close to describing doing six trips of those. At least with the Liv- Marble trips you used to see people. Now like the other sidings, used to get rid of duds, turn em short when running late, or engineering works east of The Street, service suspensions etc, so not that rare an occurrence. If I recall correctly there used to be a secret door at the back end of the WB platform that led into the sidings. I used to gaze at it longingly as an escape route to get away from the singing signalman and a boss eyed loon called Robbo, bless, who used to bovver us guards. I don't think it's there anymore, the door that is, so the only way out for a driver is the only way in - on a train. I would venture to suggest that the door must still be there somewhere because it led not only to the sidings but also to the signal and tunnel telephone relay rooms, the old two storey P-way accommodation at the platform end of the siding tunnel and was the walking route to reset the siding traction circuit breakers as well. Mind you I haven't been there for many years and that's the end where we demolished the platform relay room and diverted all the telephone cables to make way for new escalators 789, one of many jobs I had a hand in at Liverpool Street in the years before, during and after the Broadgate development. There used to be a door at the end of back end of the EB too. It was where the car examiner lived like a hobbit with his hammer and oil can. I haven't seen Robbo for ages, but Honey Monster is still around - Leytonstone to S Woodford. No guard's bar to lean over these days so I wonder who he pesters. Punters probably. |
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Post by JR 15secs on Aug 23, 2009 7:21:36 GMT
I used to gaze at it longingly as an escape route to get away from the singing signalman The singing signalman was Wally Wade who was on duty at Moorgate when the crash occurred. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 14:42:10 GMT
Both sidings are next to each other if the first train got a 2 he was going into the right hand siding, so presumably the second would have got a 1 and gone into the left hand siding which is a pretty straight route from the eastbound platform. Route numbers at Liverpool Street are a bit different than conventional lines. A shunt with route 2 is the siding number 1 (left handside) and a shunt with a number 3 is siding number 2 (right handside). Route 1 is a green/white signal eastbound and you won't see a number displayed. I was thinking of pre 92 stock days. Things have obviously changed a bit. |
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Post by Colin D on Aug 23, 2009 19:53:14 GMT
I seem to remember White City/Liverpool St reverse's in the late sixties along with the Marble Arch/ Liverpool St's. Not sure how everything was worked into the timings or is my memory playing tricks on me |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 23, 2009 20:15:15 GMT
I seem to remember White City/Liverpool St reverse's in the late sixties along with the Marble Arch/ Liverpool St's. Not sure how everything was worked into the timings or is my memory playing tricks on me Not just in the late 60s but also in the late 70s! I recall Liverpool St reversers in mid to late afternoons there. |
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Post by Oracle on Aug 23, 2009 20:39:41 GMT
I too recall them when I worked in London from 1973-81.
Also the Wood Green-Barons Court shorts to 1979.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 23, 2009 22:02:47 GMT
One timetable had Marble Arch to Liverpool Street and White City to Leytonstone shorts, each every ten minutes. The rest were Ealing to Hainault and West Ruislip to Loughton / Epping every 10 mins, giving 24tph between Marble Arch and Liverpool Street.
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Post by ruislip on Aug 24, 2009 2:33:10 GMT
Wasn't there a time in the mid-70s when there were 12tph off-peak for the Central between White City and Liverpool St as follows:
4tph West Ruislip-Epping
4thp Ealing Bdwy-Hainault via Newbury Park
4thp White City-Liverpool St or Leytonstone ?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 24, 2009 8:27:51 GMT
Wasn't there a time in the mid-70s when there were 12tph off-peak for the Central between White City and Liverpool St as follows: 4tph West Ruislip-Epping 4thp Ealing Bdwy-Hainault via Newbury Park 4thp White City-Liverpool St or Leytonstone ? WTT 43 (9/4/79) saw trains every 12 minutes per branch, with the Liv. St. Marble Arch local shorties starting at noon. The TT was stabilised at trains every 2 min through the City(rather than 1½ min) with the introduction of WTT 25 (8/7/63), then 2½ min with WTT 30 (16/10/67); there was further tinkering with the shorties in WTT 40 (27/10/75), removing two trains per hour White City - Liv. St after the morning peak but putting another 6 in after noon. I'm pretty sure I've got all the 70s and 80s to hand if anyone desperately wants a potted history of the central area short workings. ;D |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 24, 2009 9:41:38 GMT
Wasn't there a time in the mid-70s when there were 12tph off-peak for the Central between White City and Liverpool St as follows: 4tph West Ruislip-Epping 4thp Ealing Bdwy-Hainault via Newbury Park 4thp White City-Liverpool St or Leytonstone ? I doubt that would have been a Monday - Friday midday off peak service. I remember WTT 53 (the one when the 92 stock started coming in) had such a service for the evening off peak and on Sunday daytimes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 21:22:48 GMT
I was heading for Liverpool St from Mile End yesterday at 5pm or so. We'd just pulled out of Mile End when the driver came on the voicebox to say that the stupid line controllers had let a defective train out of the sidings onto the main line so they can test it. In the evening peak. The driver didn't sound too impressed as we were held at Bethnal Green for a while. "Nothing I can do - they're in charge" he said - twice. We are one team!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2009 20:09:10 GMT
While on the subject, thought you all might like to see this!
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Post by superteacher on Aug 27, 2009 23:43:43 GMT
So good to see that, and hear the 62's coming in and out of the station!
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Post by ducatisti on Aug 28, 2009 7:00:28 GMT
fascinating! That job would drive me mad... sitting in a darkened room like that
LU signalling fascinates me, I can get my head around old-fashioned "bell it box-to-box" railway signalling, I can sort of comprehend the panel replacements, but the semi-auto nature of LU stuff... there be goblins as far as I'm concerned...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 7:21:51 GMT
fascinating! That job would drive me mad... sitting in a darkened room like that LU signalling fascinates me, I can get my head around old-fashioned "bell it box-to-box" railway signalling, I can sort of comprehend the panel replacements, but the semi-auto nature of LU stuff... there be goblins as far as I'm concerned... There's still places like this on the network. A rather dashing chap there is staring in this video too! |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 28, 2009 9:32:25 GMT
2 magic words: 'free acceptance' should help with the analogy of belling it on.
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