Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jul 8, 2009 9:25:01 GMT
I thought that this might interest. I have for too long been interested in the Point Pleasant Junction - East Putney Junction - Wimbledon North Junction line. I have been over it on a railtour, ex-Victoria, headed to Weymouth, with Mk 1 stock. In the past tours have included all manner of stock including Blue Pullman DMUs sourced from the LMR! In that case the sets had to have their cables etc. tied-up so as not to foul the 4th rail.
As is known the former Up line was removed because of a weak bridge over the Windsor Lines, although there was (is?) a single-track road bridge. Recent research has suggested that BR 9Fs, at least those transferred to the SR (Feltham?) in the early 1960s used the connection to get to Clapham Junction and Nine Elms because of a ban north of Wimbledon ('tight curves'?) on the LSWR main and also into Waterloo. This begs the question as to how much goods traffic was sent via Point Pleasant and how this affected the District?
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Jul 8, 2009 10:26:19 GMT
As is known the former Up line was removed because of a weak bridge over the Windsor Lines, although there was (is?) a single-track road bridge. This roadbridge (Woodlands Way) is at an intemediate level...the Widsor Lines go underneath it,the flying junctions' connections go over it.It's quite narrow,and bollarded off against road traffic,and has been for at least the last 30 years. I didn't know that about the designation of the Windsor Lines (Fasts in the middle) I have travelled that line since before 1976 when I went to school in Putney.At that time the USAGE was clear and consistently DF,DS,US,UF to the extent of the fast platforms being locked at Wandsworth Town and Barnes,and clearly in poor condition,and the UF at Putney only unlocked for staff use.Stopping Windsor trains (after abut '78) used the DF and US platforms at Putney. In more recent years,I have seen the outer tracks used much more,it is possible that the designation has been changed,but trains often seem to be back to the old system by Clapham Jct. I still travel there fairly frequently,and will check the ladder junction as it is in situ. When I first used that line,it had a plethora of SR Green enamel signs.....only Clapham Jct,Vauxhall ,Barnes and Richmond had BR Whites,and Clapham Jct and Putney at least had fabulous Green-and-white mechanical route indicators......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2009 18:04:51 GMT
Looking through the BR SR locomotive route availability book for 1962 I can confirm that pretty much everything was allowed over the East Putney line in steam days (bizarrely, not including Stanier 8Fs which were banned). 9Fs were banned from all lines at Waterloo although 92220 'Evening Star' did work a tour out of Victoria in September 1964 It ran to Wimbledon via East Croydon and then to Axminster via the Mid-Hants line and Southampton.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Jul 11, 2009 8:38:05 GMT
Regular freight on the line included the Vauxhall milk tanks which would be unloaded in what is now (was) the Up eurostar line; the Wood Lane milk which would go via Latchmere junction to the milk depot which is now covered by the Westway, and a plethora of other freight and SR ecs workings to and from Wimbledon Park. these were always steam worked. My school used to use Southfields Park for sprots days and I'd spend most of my lessonw atching the trains go by near Replingham Road bridge.
The up line was abandoned in th 1980's due to the weak bridge. I certainly worked ECS over there in my days at Waterloo, and even ran a shuttle service one Sunday East Putney-Wimbldon during engineering work on Putney Bridge. This neccesitated single line working between Putney Bridge and East Putney, and slw from East Putney to Wimbledon IIRC.
The DR terminated in the down platform and the passengers walked across to the BR train on the up platform on the connecting line.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 16:39:19 GMT
Drove a liner up to Clapham via Hounslow and Barnes today and I can confirm that the junction at Point Pleasant only has access to the Up Windsor Fast (middle) line in the up direction. The pointwork looks well used. There is no sign that there has ever been a route indicator on the signal at the bottom of the connecting line from East Putney and I cannot remember there ever being a connection to the Up Windsor Slow there.
Occasional diversions used the route in steam days. I have two pictures in books with unrebuilt Bullied Pacifics pulling passenger trains at East Putney. Bizarrely, one of them is being piloted by an M7 tank! I have travelled on the line on 'Merrymaker' excursions as these used the route quite regularly in the 70s and 80s. When I passed out as a Guard at Eastleigh in 1987 we still had a number of turns that involved working ECS from Waterloo to Wimbledon Park via East Putney at the end of the morning peak. I don't remember any evening turns but that could be because Wimbledon Park men did them all.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Jul 11, 2009 19:10:22 GMT
The East Putney used to join the up Windsor slow at Point Pleasant. There was a milk depot there too on the up side which was rail connected until the mid 80's when the connection from East Putney was taken out. The milk depot was closed earlier than than.
I've travelled over the East Putney on Nelsons in the early 70's on trips to Pompey for the IoW, probably due to engineering works on the main line.
There were signal boxes at East Putney, Cromer road, Southfields, Replingham Road and Wimbledon Park. Cromer Road and Southfields were taken out in the 1971 resignalling; Replingham Road was closed many years earlier and the block section converted to an intermediate block.
I gather East Putney and Wimbledon Park boxes have also gone now?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 19:23:25 GMT
Can't tell you that. The last time I drove over the route was about 8 years ago or so when I had to deliver an EPS 37/6 that we were hiring to Maritime for liner work.
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Jul 11, 2009 20:55:26 GMT
The East Putney used to join the up Windsor slow at Point Pleasant. There was a milk depot there too on the up side which was rail connected until the mid 80's when the connection from East Putney was taken out. The milk depot was closed earlier than that The milk depot was closed by 1976,though there was still track there,discconnected from the main lines,and there was a building at the far East of the depot which had tracks running into it,with a deep pit between the rails,presumably for decanting the wagons. Last time I looked,all the track was gone,the building too,but the old wooden buffer-stop,made from a sleeper,was still at the far (West) end,hard up against where the Up curve sweeps onto the main formation. To answer Glyn's point,if I was late getting out of school,say after 4:30 we would pass an 8-VEP (later 8-CEP) ECS working,held on the Up curve from East Putney at a red,waiting to join the Windsor Lines at Point Pleasant.This would have been from 1976-80.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Jul 11, 2009 22:55:55 GMT
IIRC the connection was taken out in a weekend reballasting/relaying job on which I acted as secondman, probably around 1982.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 18:25:16 GMT
Hi
In response to Slugabed, the lines from Barnes are now US, UF, DS, DF. This makes it possible for an up train to come off the Hounslow loop into Barnes at the same time as an up train from Richmond and this often happens. The down side to this is that the up platforms now in constant use at Barnes, Putney and (especially) Wandsworth Town have fewer facilities than the old ones.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 20:57:00 GMT
In response to Slugabed, the lines from Barnes are now US, UF, DS, DF. This makes it possible for an up train to come off the Hounslow loop into Barnes at the same time as an up train from Richmond and this often happens. The down side to this is that the up platforms now in constant use at Barnes, Putney and (especially) Wandsworth Town have fewer facilities than the old ones. The lines are (and AFAIK always have been) designated US, UF , DF, DS: with the fast lines in the middle, even though for many years they were used by the stopping trains, while the fast (non-stop) trains used the outside ('slow') lines - usage of the up lines changed a couple of years back to that you might expect (i.e. stopping trains on the slow lines), to give the usage pattern described. AFAIK the speed limit is the same on all four lines.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Aug 9, 2009 7:03:26 GMT
Correct etr220. The stopping trains always used the centre roads, that way BR only had to maintian 1 platform and 1 set of platform staff (when they used tohave them).
Line speed was 60 on all roads IIRC. There was an emergency crossover between Point Pleasant and Putney between the centre roads. I used it a couple of times during planned engineering works. It had to clipped and scotched.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 17:41:46 GMT
Sorry, guys, if my post was confusing and/or incorrect about the actual designation of the lines - I don't work on the trains - I was only pointing out that in practice trains are US, UF, DS, DF. Is it an unusual operation to have slow, fast, slow fast in that sort of way?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2009 21:42:55 GMT
yes it is unusual. Lines are usually designated US, UF, DF, DS or US, DS, UF, DF or similar. The only place I know that an arrangement similar to that exists are two places on the WCML, one of which is between Colwich and Litchfield Trent Valley on the WCML where the lines are US, UF, DS, DF. This arrangement predates the recent Trent Valley resignalling scheme and existed on the four track section between Colwich and Armitage. When the four track was extended through to jon up with the next four track stretch at Tamworth Low Level the arrangement was extended to Litchfield. Just West of Litchfield there are 75mph crossovers and from there on the arrangement is the more familiar US, UF, DF, DS until the end of the four-track east of Nuneaton. From Brinklow to Rugby the new arrangement is US, UF, DS, DF similar to Colwich-Litchfield.
The other unusual one that I know of is between Millbrook and Southampton Central where the designation is UF, US, DS, DF. I would guess that this is due to Millbrook station having an island platform and it has been this way probably since the thirties when the New 'Western' Docks were built.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Aug 10, 2009 8:35:25 GMT
Millbrook and Southampton Central I had forgotten about that! Of course you had the original services to/from Southampton Terminus and the Docks, with Central being 'round the [Northam] curve' and you have the fast[ish] and stopping Portsmouth line trains.
|
|