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Post by setttt on Jul 9, 2009 10:33:53 GMT
I was responding to your inference that extra trains can't easily be provided to serve Wimbledon when the tennis is on I did not infer that at all. the sheer variability of finish time would make timetabling 'push-ins' for this fortnight an absolute pain Anyway - a timetabled extra was used to provide one of the shuttles, or does that not count because it didn't run to a specific path (which would have been pointless)? If it was really felt necessary I'm sure a second, timetabled, extra train could be made available on weekday evenings subject to train operator and rolling stock availability, which would hopefully remove the need to use an Olympia train at future Wimbledons.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 9, 2009 10:56:46 GMT
Anyway - a timetabled extra was used to provide one of the shuttles, or does that not count because it didn't run to a specific path (which would have been pointless)? Why would it have been pointless? If a TTN was published then everybody would have at least a serving suggestion as to the planned movements and duty rostering, not to mention signal control data - this discussion about the arrangements would have taken a completely different path. ( timetabled or otherwise)
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Post by setttt on Jul 9, 2009 11:08:12 GMT
It would have been pointless due to the variable nature of tip-out times at Southfields.
The extra is published in the WTT, and there is a dedicated duty covered by an Acton driver who will either a) stable the train as booked if it is not required or b) work the train as required (as happened over the fortnight), stabling by 2305 at Ealing Common.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 9, 2009 11:47:42 GMT
Which is, of course, Train 34 as mentioned upthread.
I have the sneaking feeling that this discussion is becoming circular.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 15:50:33 GMT
Which is, of course, Train 34 as mentioned upthread. I have the sneaking feeling that this discussion is becoming circular....... If, as generally put forward, it is unreasonable to have an enhanced service, running to specific varied paths or extra trains to specific paths, then Seth correctly points out there is a spare train already in the WTT available and crewed to provide ad-hoc extra trips. However, Seth did also clearly state that there is nothing to stop a special TTN operating in which a second spare train is provided earlier and thus formally crewed. A special TTN does not have to have a specific path when the days requirements for it are not known. If it was really felt necessary I'm sure a second, timetabled, extra train could be made available on weekday evenings subject to train operator and rolling stock availability, which would hopefully remove the need to use an Olympia train at future Wimbledons. In addition to the other trains identified as capable of providing coverage T162 is surplus from Edgware Road at 19.29 In fact ...T240 could be taken as early as 1553. It originates from Goldhawk Road at 1539 runs to Moorgate and then stands spare for use as required until 1905 arrive Hammersmith 1936. Just a matter of getting a District T/op on it at Edgware Road be they a spare or specially rostered under a TTN.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 9, 2009 16:41:59 GMT
In fact ...T240 could be taken as early as 1553. It originates from Goldhawk Road at 1539 runs to Moorgate and then stands spare for use as required until 1905 arrive Hammersmith 1936. Just a matter of getting a District T/op on it at Edgware Road be they a spare or specially rostered under a TTN. What's the quote....... 'Great minds think alike'? I was going to suggest exactly that, after spending the afternoon looking in really quite intrica^H^H^H^H^Hmind-bogglingly excessive detail at an old H&C/Circle WTT. Which is why there is a strange excel formula posted as my FB status ;D
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 9, 2009 18:07:55 GMT
Indeed a couple of Colin's comments have to me seemed like saying it is not possible to arrange T/ops for push-in trains on short notice. I never said it was impossible - I have however offered the point that there are many factors at play, and it is often far easier said on here with the benefit of hindsight and all the time in the world to scrutinise things whereas a controller on the day has all the luxury of 20 seconds to make a snap decision which may or may not be the correct course of action. If, as generally put forward, it is unreasonable to have an enhanced service, running to specific varied paths or extra trains to specific paths, then Seth correctly points out there is a spare train already in the WTT available and crewed to provide ad-hoc extra trips. Indeed, but (as previously examined) I would question it's usefulness given the time it becomes available. It could be a Saviour if the Tennis finishes late, but if the heavens open at 6pm..... However, Seth did also clearly state that there is nothing to stop a special TTN operating in which a second spare train is provided earlier and thus formally crewed. A special TTN does not have to have a specific path when the days requirements for it are not known. In addition to the other trains identified as capable of providing coverage T162 is surplus from Edgware Road at 19.29 In fact ...T240 could be taken as early as 1553. It originates from Goldhawk Road at 1539 runs to Moorgate and then stands spare for use as required until 1905 arrive Hammersmith 1936. Just a matter of getting a District T/op on it at Edgware Road be they a spare or specially rostered under a TTN. 162 is a useful suggestion - it's certainly not one I had considered to be honest. I wonder if your train 240 suggestion, which I really like and wish I'd thought of first ( ;D ;D), is actually realistic. Given the reliability/availability of C stocks (which this train is I presume ironically in place for), I wonder how often it gets canceled given that it would attract a minor item in comparison with a Circle canceled through the peak
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 9, 2009 18:34:39 GMT
I wonder if it has ever been used in this way; the Moorgate spares came in with WTT 19 (23/5/04), so there have been plenty of opportunities for it to be utilised.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 18:41:30 GMT
Whilst i don't know, i'd wager it is the first train to get cancelled if there is insufficient stock ! I'd presume "on high" can dictate it must run if they have a special need (or special TTN) for it though. I'd also fancy the turn that crews it is popular too ;D ;D
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Post by upfast on Jul 9, 2009 19:13:16 GMT
I wonder if it has ever been used in this way; the Moorgate spares came in with WTT 19 (23/5/04), so there have been plenty of opportunities for it to be utilised. I don't think that it has ever ran. Nor has an item been booked. I stand to be corrected - lc66?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 16, 2009 16:01:14 GMT
You know how I've commented in this thread about 'I've never found a TTN for Wimbledon'..........
Well..... I now have in my paws a copy of TTN 161/72, typewritten on foolscap: 'Special Train Arrangements for Lawn Tennis at Wimbledon, Monday 26th June to Tuesday 11th July'
I'll have to compare it properly with WTTs 96 and C96, but it looks like 5 interpeak stablers had their booked workings cut short for the Mid-day arrangements, 4 trains did not stable straight after evening busy.
The Edgware Road/ Putney Bridge service was extended to Wimbledon and the now-familiar Wimbleware service was run. Programme Machine rolls were punched and used for this service, which rather vindicates my thoughts about providing a timetabled service.
If I get chance, I'll type it up in the historical section.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 16, 2009 19:16:48 GMT
Ah, KNEW there would be a use for that old paperwork one day. IIRC there was a Wimbledon Tennis WTT in the lot you got from me earlier??
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