One of the carriages I got into last night..

The utter idiocy of some people are amazing - and that's a lot of "some" people seeing how many people get plastered, be it London, Newcastle etc.

Disgusting - and a little curious why you couldn't smell it (and pick another car) before slipping half the carriage!

Anne - from what you've described here I have to comment that the train should NOT have been in service - period.

IMO once to T/O either realised or had been informed of the state of the first car, the train should have been tipped out and returned to the depot for cleaning. Yes this would have caused inconvenience, but health & safety in this instance surely takes a higher priority.

I have recanted before about the last Cockfosters - Heathrow having to be taken o/s because a nice sould decided to sit down and urinate on the floor! The SS took the chap away and coalled the police but luckily my t/op friend was told to take another train out in the adjacent platform instead.

The train should really be removed from service. If it is 2 last train however and the driver and controller are happy to, station staff could tell passengers not to use the car. This was done the other day on another line!

Is it possible to isolate a car from the door opening mechanism??

Also Anne does not refer to the T/O even making announcements to customers/passengers/cattle suggesting that they vacate that car

Agreed, I would have done the same, and if it was near the cab I would have isolated the nearest 2 sets of doors (3 in a C stock) to give the public a subtle hint that there may be a problem there. PA's of course would be provided.

In the days of crew operation we could isolate 1 car but we can't with OPO. When I was a guard, I was on my last trip and when I was changing ends at Edgware to go back to Morden via the cross I noticed one of the cars had had some of its flouresecent tubes smashed, so I isolated the car, covered the doorways with stickers saying car out of use and went on my way. Got down to Tottenham Ct Rd and being a typical Friday night was the train was busy. I looked through the communicating doors on my way to Leicester square and noticed people in the dud car (car 5 of 7) so when I got there I walked forward to investigate. The car had a group of around 12 to 15 preople who took it upon themselves to enter the fairly dark car through the communicating doors. It was then I noticed 3 of the ladies were bare footed!! How they didn't cut their feet open i'll never know as there was glass everywhere!! After showing them the error of their ways with them now having to rejoin cattle class they were less than impressed that i'd moved them from their seats and that they had to stand. They weren't at all concerned that they could be visiting casualty instead of enjoying a night out!!!

I suppose what i'm saying is even with the best systems in place, there will always be Darwin award nominees especially where copious quantities of alcohol are concerned.

Very much with trainop78 on this.

My own policy on such matters, is, if the train has vomit in it and it is on a trip other than a final and late run to depot then i will remove the train from service (empty to depot for cleaning or change of train). Late at night on the final run, i may well over look it on the basis it will probably get more. However if it is on seats OR as in this example, very liquidy, or in a door way, either representing a slip hazard then it's out of service.

Slip hazard is more of a problem for a refurb train which has a smooth floor. I removed a train from service in circumstances the same as the quoted example about 3 weeks ago (empty Richmond to Upminster, even though it was a late night one). Can't play fancy free with safety, slip (or indeed any other, including bio) hazard and it's out of service !

most of the time, however, the first i know of it, is when i am ensuring the train is empty before stabling at night ! Passengers don't tell you anything if they think you'll take the train out of service ...unless they have reached their stop ! (version 3.1 excepted ;D ;D ;D )

A further problem with a refurb train is liquid spills (shall we say ) run under the cab door into the driving cab !!! yuk !!!

With the greatest respect back to you ( ) it is not a passengers decision to make. It is not the passengers responsibility, it is not the passengers who are legally charged with the safe operation of the train, and it is not the passengers who will end up in the dock should anything go wrong.


Again, this is not their 'call'. If the floor is covered in vomit then a slipping incident is quite likely, this could be followed by (at best) a claim on the company for cleaning/replacement of the soiled articles or (at worst) a personal injury claim.
On the subject of bad smells, these can sometimes indicate other more serious problems, such as gassing batteries or an overheating motor axle, which the general public would not be able to identify.


Whilst I sympathise with your plight, if the bus is in an unsafe state then the trained professional in charge should be left to make the right decision dependant on the individual circumstances and not based on the fact that customers may suffer a delay (although this should form part of his decision making process).

I don't know whether or not this is feasable, but why can't the cars be provided with sick-bags, a la aircraft?

I suppose it's a bit much to ban drunks from using the system, but lets face it, the airlines won't allow it, so why should LUL staff be subject to it?

Under the London Regional Transport Railways Byelaws (now applying to TfL Railways)

4(1) No person in a state of intoxication shall enter or remain on the railway.

4(3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is in a state of intoxication......the authorised person may:

(i) Require him to leave the railway, and
(ii) Prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until the authorised person is satisfied he has no intoxicating liquor with him


However enforcing these byelaws is another matter!

;D ;D Nice idea, and occasionally they can be in the right place at the right time, but there are approximately 680 BTP officers dedicated to patrolling the tube. They work on a 3 shift rotation, so roughly 225 on duty at any one time. Their priorities are terrorism, robberies, serious assaults etc. Enforcing LUs byelaws will always be some way down their to do list.

Aren't there CCTV cameras on the trains ? Perhaps they could be put on youtube to shame the b.......... I despair.

Isn't that an advantage in a bit of a roundabout way? In that a driver who would otherwise be happy to have a train continue in service with vomit all over (because it doesn't inconvenience him) would have to have something done about it, as it's inconveniencing him by flooding into the cab.

Also, whilst one would gladly try to inform a member of staff if there was a problem, if you're towards the rear there isn't too much you can do. Even going up to the driver's cab - are they going to open the door to someone late at night on a station possibly full of unruly drunk passengers. Pull the PEA? But it's iffy as to whether an unclean car would be judged as a sensible use of the alarm. There's also the SEP (Someone Else's Problem) thing with staff... in that "Oh, I don't deal with that sort of thing - so-and-so over there will, though". Which, in my experience, means you can spend a lot of time trying to find someone who will take responsibility for your comment/complaint - thus people just give up and don't bother reporting things.

haha, Tom your post made me smile ;D

Mind you it has to be said, that although the passengers can change car. We have to remain in the cab and take the train to depot whether it has vomit in it or not !