We're getting tired of closures

Well, using the Met every day I'm now used to closures and when there is a train service it is a right result!!!! The worst one I ever had was the bus from Stonebridge Park to Northwood.......that made the day very long. I've thought to myself many times how LU can actually charge full fares for this, I think to charge 50% instead on days where huge chunks of network aren't working would be quite reasonable.

I agree with you Paul.

I am getting furious with all this. Every weekend is just out of order

And this is all for ATO right?

I'm always trying to get to Canary Wharf and the easiest way for me is the Jubilee!

They didn't shut down the C&SLR initially, but after a tunnel collapse they had to. They rebuilt Aldgate East with trains running. The CLR was done at a time when H&S were less important!

Hopefully, though maybe I am just kidding myself, Tube Lines will have learnt from their work upgrading The Jub.

Maybe someone can confirm, will they use the same ATO signalling system on The Northern as they have been installing on The Jub?

Ooh Err - you're not suggesting that some parts of the system are so near to life-expiry that they're on the brink of failure and so verging on unsafe (broken rails etc.) are you?? Perish the thought.

Engineering work has to happen - it's a face of life. I don't like it, but it has to happen.

It's the way it's dealt with that makes the difference.

For example, to get from Barnet to Finchley, I was obliged to use a bus which went round the houses, down back lanes to serve each station. Why not run some buses like that, but others as express services not stopping at intermediate stations - which I'm sure I've heard happen before? The general quality of replacement bus services leaves a fair bit to be desired, in my experience.

I do agree, though, that a reduced fare for the day would give some sort of sweetener on the bitter pill. Especially since those with Oyster can be charge more for the "privilege" of a replacement bus!

The other thing to consider, is that closures are invariably upon weekends - ostensibly since the commuters will then not be disrupted. But this is surely shooting ourselves in the foot.

A commuter is forced to travel by tube - they HAVE to be at work at 9am or whatnot.

A shopper going into town, to the cinema etc isn't so tied - and the appearance of engineering works may make them think "stuff it - I'll take the car / take the bus / not go at all"

Closing the Waterloo & City for five months a couple of years ago seems to have done nothing for its reliability - it still has instant surprise shut-downs annoyingly often. And this on a line which could have engineering work every Sunday with no interruption to the timetable whatsoever!

The main issue here is that weekend shutdowns, whilst undesirable, are a temporary thing, to enable the bulk of the work to be down/caught up with. If in 5 years time they are still happening, then they are simply the wrong choice for the city, and someone should be accountable. I have a terrible feeling this will be an example of big brother saying years down the line..."But the tube hasnt had a full service at the weekend for years, to have one now can't be accomodated and is unthinkable!" As long as people remember...

Else the answer is to quad everything and run the new tracks for weekends and nights. Wait, thats not a bad idea.... XD

I bet nobody in LU has thought of THAT! Ok so it would need some careful planning (and the problem of overfull trains due to reduced frequency still remains) but at least someone tell us they've at least thought of it!!!

Not too long ago a shuttle service was ran on the northbound track between Stanmore and Kingsbury during a few weekends.

But a lot of the assets that have failed recently weren't upgraded during the closure.

I am suggesting precisely what Phil asks, if we were to cave in to the demands of no engineering work at the weekends.

A good example would be the drainage work that has been done over the last year in the Notting Hill Gate to High Street Kensington, Sloane Square to Victoria, Hornchurch and Upminster areas. Without this work being done, the track bed would eventually fill up with water and therefore become unusable. Naturally this has to be done in engineering hours or weekend possessions as it involves removing and replacing ballast under the track.

Then there's the track replacement, changing from Bullhead rails to Flat Bottom rails all over the SSR - if you don't want the S stock to bounce off the track, this needs to be done. And of course you cannot run trains and replace the track at the same time.

You want a reliable and fast service? well you won't get it by using equipment that is now 40+ years old for 20 hours a day. ATO and ATP can give a superior performance when compared to leaving a human in charge of the controls - now as a driver I don't like the idea of ATO, but do you want a superior service or the current offering?

Many of you have pointed out the lack of correct information on the ETA board pages on TfL's website, and that some stations don't have a board showing when the next train is, or even stations that have the boards but that they don't show anything other than the line - other than part of the Jubilee line and the Central line, this all relies on the current 1960's installed signalling and will never improve without all lines being resignalled with modern signalling. As I stated on the previous page, you cannot install or test this with trains running.

As for the suggestions of quadrupling the track or installing bi-directional signalling, I thought you all wanted less engineering not more?!! Confused? I certainly am!! ;D ;D

I'm sure I've said it on this forum before, but I'll say it again anyway: you cannot have your cake and eat it folks

I'm sure someone mentioned that in Madrid they managed to install and test a new signalling system whilst the trains ran? Can't remember where that was said or if it was indeed Madrid, but it was done, and recently. And someone said it on this very forum. Not sure who though...

The quadding was indeed tongue in cheek, but IMHO bi-di stuff should be combined with whatever resignalling work is carried out.

The OP asked "is this the shape of things to come for ever and ever?".

It shouldn't be for ever; people should rightly remember the fact the tube ran near enough well enough with just normal engineering hours before the PPP. The engineers would love a tube closed for maintenence on the weekends ( , the public dont want this though! However, as time wears on and people become accustomed to weekend closures the risk is run of it seeming 'normal' to have these shutdowns. Certainly the more frequently it happens the more acceptable a practice it becomes. I think this is wrong.