BTH, L11, battery locos, 38 & 59 stock, WT54s

d7666

Posts: 1,417

BTH, L11, battery locos, 38 & 59 stock, WT54s May 17, 2009 11:39:09 GMT

Post by d7666 on May 17, 2009 11:39:09 GMT

Recently seeing L11 at Epping reminded me to research and / or ask a question about L11 and BTH [British Thomson Houston]. In turn this has led on to more questions than answers.

L11

L11 was rebuilt from ''standard'' motors 3080+3109. Both cars were built new with BTH electrics [source: UNDERGROUND TRAIN FILE TUBE STOCK 1933-1959]. Then WORKHORSES OF THE LONDON UNDERGROUND states original WT54A motors retained. Is WT54 - a BTH motor ? ((1))

Battery locos

Following on from that, WORKHORSES etc battery loco section is partially incomplete on motors gen. It states the original nine LT generic battery locos L35-L43 - including the metadynes - all had new MV motors [but differing control eqpt.]. Then for the 1951 batch L55-L61 it says recovered WT54 motors were used. Same for Acton built L33 [nee L76]. WORKHORSES then becomes a little vague ... the next two batches L20-L32 and L15-L19 are written with only ''secondhand'' motors no type stated, but L44-L54 are then given as recovered WT54s again. L62-L67 description gives no motor information at all; however IIRC at time of introduction these followed suit with recovered motors. So, can anyone state for sure what motors were [and still are] in each of L20-L32, L15-L19 and L62-L67 batches ?

1938 stock

Back now to UNDERGROUND TRAIN FILE TUBE STOCK. For ''standard'' tube stock a breakdown list of BTH and other supplier motors is given, and then for 1956/1959 stock all had BTH motors [but other electrical bits from other makers]. But no data is given for motors on 1938 stock after stating the 1935 experimental stock cars of which 6 were BTH. I have always understood all series built 1938 stock had BTH motors, but on thinking about it I don't think I can find a source to back this up. So, what motors did 1938 stock have, and if mixed suppliers does anyone have a list of what was fitted new to what.

1959 stock

What model of BTH motor ?

''standard stock''

Ditto - what model of BTH motor.

((1)) GEC - meaning GEC in its pre-1960s AEI [BTH+MV] takeover from - used prefix WT for most of its rotating machine models, thats why I'm asking.

--
Nick

tubeprune
Staff Emeritus

Posts: 1,894

BTH, L11, battery locos, 38 & 59 stock, WT54s May 17, 2009 14:45:46 GMT

Post by tubeprune on May 17, 2009 14:45:46 GMT

May 17, 2009 11:39:09 GMT d7666 said:

Recently seeing L11 at Epping reminded me to research and / or ask a question about L11 and BTH [British Thomson Houston]. In turn this has led on to more questions than answers.

L11

L11 was rebuilt from ''standard'' motors 3080+3109. Both cars were built new with BTH electrics [source: UNDERGROUND TRAIN FILE TUBE STOCK 1933-1959]. Then WORKHORSES OF THE LONDON UNDERGROUND states original WT54A motors retained. Is WT54 - a BTH motor ? ((1))

No. B T-H didn't make motors themselves. The WT54 motor was manufacturered by the British General Electric Company (GEC) at Witton, hence the WT notation.

Battery locos

Following on from that, WORKHORSES etc battery loco section is partially incomplete on motors gen. It states the original nine LT generic battery locos L35-L43 - including the metadynes - all had new MV motors [but differing control eqpt.]. Then for the 1951 batch L55-L61 it says recovered WT54 motors were used. Same for Acton built L33 [nee L76]. WORKHORSES then becomes a little vague ... the next two batches L20-L32 and L15-L19 are written with only ''secondhand'' motors no type stated, but L44-L54 are then given as recovered WT54s again. L62-L67 description gives no motor information at all; however IIRC at time of introduction these followed suit with recovered motors. So, can anyone state for sure what motors were [and still are] in each of L20-L32, L15-L19 and L62-L67 batches ?

The L62-L67 batch had MV145AZs recovered from scrap CO/CP motor cars. I assume the others still have their old WT and MV motors.

1938 stock

Back now to UNDERGROUND TRAIN FILE TUBE STOCK. For ''standard'' tube stock a breakdown list of BTH and other supplier motors is given, and then for 1956/1959 stock all had BTH motors [but other electrical bits from other makers]. But no data is given for motors on 1938 stock after stating the 1935 experimental stock cars of which 6 were BTH. I have always understood all series built 1938 stock had BTH motors, but on thinking about it I don't think I can find a source to back this up. So, what motors did 1938 stock have, and if mixed suppliers does anyone have a list of what was fitted new to what.

38s had the LT 100 which was a smaller version of the C200 motor built by Crompton for the 36TS. The main order of 38s motors was split between Cromptons and GEC building to the Crompton design.

1959 stock

What model of BTH motor ?

They had LT112 motors built by GEC

''standard stock''

Ditto - what model of BTH motor.

WT54 for GEC and B T-H equipped cars and MV152 for Met Vickers equipped cars.

((1)) GEC - meaning GEC in its pre-1960s AEI [BTH+MV] takeover from - used prefix WT for most of its rotating machine models, thats why I'm asking.

--
Nick

"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools"

d7666

Posts: 1,417

BTH, L11, battery locos, 38 & 59 stock, WT54s May 17, 2009 15:10:06 GMT

Post by d7666 on May 17, 2009 15:10:06 GMT

tubeprune said:

Is WT54 - a BTH motor ? ((1))[
No. B T-H didn't make motors themselves. The WT54 motor was manufacturered by the British General Electric Company (GEC) at Witton, hence the WT notation.

Thanks, thought so as in ((1)).

The L62-L67 batch had MV145AZs recovered from scrap CO/CP motor cars. I assume the others still have their old WT and MV motors.

38s had the LT 100 which was a smaller version of the C200 motor built by Crompton for the 36TS. The main order of 38s motors was split between Cromptons and GEC building to the Crompton design.

They had LT112 motors built by GEC

WT54 for GEC and B T-H equipped cars and MV152 for Met Vickers equipped cars.

Tube stock books seem to me to be incredibly vague on these matters, certainly the tube stock book I cited implied BTH motors. OK, thats that lot sorted out.

Thanks, in a nutshell, seems to be no BTH motors anywhere then.

--
Nick

Ben fotopic... whats that? Posts: 4,282	BTH, L11, battery locos, 38 & 59 stock, WT54s May 17, 2009 17:29:11 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ben on May 17, 2009 17:29:11 GMT 'Tube trains under London' has details on the motors of various passenger fleets (nothing to add to what tupeprune has said though). Deffinately a good book to pick up if you see it second hand.
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Post by d7666 on May 17, 2009 11:39:09 GMT

Post by tubeprune on May 17, 2009 14:45:46 GMT

Post by d7666 on May 17, 2009 15:10:06 GMT

Post by Ben on May 17, 2009 17:29:11 GMT