Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:22:16 GMT
Yes, it's another one of those irritating questions from me again. Whilst looking through an Ian Allan London Transport ABC of 1963 (ebay... She'll kill me), I noticed that four H stock vehicles lasted until 1963 in use as a stores train. Does anyone remember this with regards to which vehicles were used, what they were used for (what sort of stores and between which depots) and what livery they ended up in? My guess is that these were four of the cars that remained in use until 1958 on the Olympia service. The book lists them as SC637 (1913 DM), SC638 (1910 DM) and SC639/40 (1910 Trailers). Thanks again.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 23, 2009 12:54:23 GMT
I've got some note on stores paths in WTTs of that era..... Give me a while to dig them out - probably sometime early next week, if that's alright with you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 13:32:25 GMT
Absolutely fine sir. Thank you.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 29, 2009 10:27:42 GMT
This shall be added to as I work towards 1963, so best to wait until about 18.30 which should give me enough time to work through the pile. All times pm, unless enumerated. italic generally means a runs if required, but typographical analysis can be confusing - eg 108 SE originating at Man. Hse. with no prior path apart from RR ex Cromwell Dt., but RR next to the train number does indicate that the whole column is RR.
District and Piccadilly No 17 (28/11/38) Saturdays Excepted Westbound. TuO ex Acton; 2.26 ex Acton Town, Uxbridge arr 2.59 108 RR ex EHam; 10.40 ex EH, Ealing Common Dt arr 11.35
Eastbound. TuO ex Uxb; 1.2 ex Uxb, Acton Town arr 1.34 108 ex AT Dt; 7.58 ex AT, 8.11 arr Earls Ct (RR to Cromwell Dt arr 8.15) 108 RR ex Crom Dt; 8.27 ex CD, 8.43½ ex Mansion House, 9.7 arr East Ham
Saturdays Only None booked.
There seems to be quite a paucity of Stores moves in this WTT above, however I shall have a look in nearby WTTs. Uxbridge Stores have an 'M' in the column header galley note, which makes me think that these were formed from Met. stock.
District and Piccadilly No 18 (1/5/39) Saturdays Excepted Westbound. TuO ex Acton; 2.26 ex Acton Town, Uxbridge arr 2.59 108 RR ex EHam; 10.40 ex EH, Ealing Common Dt arr 11.35
Eastbound. TuO ex Uxb; 1.2 ex Uxb, Acton Town arr 1.34 108 ex AT Dt; 7.58 ex AT, 8.11 arr Earls Ct (RR to Cromwell Dt arr 8.15) 108 RR ex Crom Dt; 8.27 ex CD, 8.43½ ex Mansion House, 9.7 arr East Ham
So, in this pair of WTTs there are very few specifically Stores paths; I've not included the transfer trips between Acton Works and the Met. depots or the changeover turns for the Bakerloo via Willesden, Piccadilly Ety to Acton Works RR or Northern via Kings Cross for obvious reasons! ;D Time to jump forward a bit.
District and Piccadilly No 47 (6/5/46) (last District with old non-stop codes) as revised 1/7/46 and 15/7/46 Saturdays Excepted Westbound. Ballast 6.2am RR ex Lillie Bridge, 6.4am West Kensington, 6.38am arr Rayners Lane Yard Ballast 6.13am ex ECt, arr Lillie Bridge 6.15am
*** ex Acton Works to Acton Dt 6.30am *** ex Acton Wks to Acton Dt 11.24am (not Stores, changeover - see 7.52) RR ex EHDt; 1.24 ex EH, 2.16½ arr AT to Dt 7.52 ex Acton Works, 8.0 AT, to ATDt arrive 8.2 this is not RR
MO ballasts ex Queens Park not included
Eastbound. RR 10.47am ex ATDt; 10.47am AT, 11.7am arr CromDt RR 11.25am ex CromDt; 11.29½ South Ken, 12.6 arr East Ham to Dt
Saturdays Only Westbound. Ballast 6.2 ex Lillie Br. as above Ballast RR ex Lillie Br.11.20 to Willesden via ECt. Jcn No other stores paths shewn.
MO ballasts ex Queens Park and Central Line stock not included (in addition to the exclusions above). I've put the ballasts in so you can see how the stores train fits in. I thought *** were Stores trains, but they seem to be paths ex Acton Works for overhauled stock, rather than Stores. Goodness alone knows what happened to Weekday night ballasts, they don't exist on the galley at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 11:03:45 GMT
Superb! Thanks for that.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 29, 2009 11:50:18 GMT
District and Piccadilly No 53 6/10/47 Saturdays Excepted Westbound. RR 1.24 ex East Ham; arr Acton Town 2.16 RR 7.52 ex Acton Works to Acton Town Dt arr 8.2
Eastbound. RR ex ATDt 10.47am; 10.49am AT, arr CromDt 11.7am RR ex CromDt 11.25am; 11.28½am South Ken, E Han arr 12.6
Saturdays Only None scheduled.
District and Piccadilly No 76 (1/4/57)[/i], interestingly, some of the Central ECS moves are shewn as CL Stores in this galley. There are also a few more ballasts during the lunch slack - including a booked one all the way from Upminster at 2.42 - can't see that happening these days! Mondays - Fridays Westbound. RR 1.24 ex E Ham, arr AT 2.17 to Dt RR 7.52 ex Acton Works; Acton Town 8.0½ to ATDt 8.3 Eastbound. RR 11.10am ex ATDt; 11.12am AT, E Ham arr 12.6
77 (28/7/57), 78 (9/6/58)[/i] same.
They seem to have been recast in 79 (1/12/58), I shall have a pause for lunch and a further peruse.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on May 1, 2009 15:28:21 GMT
Something curious happened after 1958; I'm part way through 1960 now - hence the silence. Most odd; the morning stores out to East Ham seems to have vanished, but the evening one to/from Ealing Common is there and retimed. Puzzled.
Hmm, by the time I got to 1961 (and was beginning to run out of juice) there were a lot more obvious ECS trips originating out of Acton Works in close, but not identical times, but the evening stores run out of Acton is there in the galley. I'm going to give my eyes a rest after reading something in the order of 20,000 galley headings. Bear with me, because this is quite interesting and I shall look into it further.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2009 6:31:43 GMT
The East Ham depot was rebuilt as the LTS electrified depot around 1958. The District Line transferring to the newly built Upminster depot.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on May 2, 2009 8:17:34 GMT
The East Ham depot was rebuilt as the LTS electrified depot around 1958. The District Line transferring to the newly built Upminster depot. Oh yes; but why are there not Acton - Upminster stores paths in close if not similar times to the Acton - East Ham? I can't believe that Upminster was that self-sufficient, because the Central Line Stores and the evening trundle out to Ealing Common stores are still on the galley. I shall continue searching, I've still got the next 50 years to look through if I feel really keen. Hmm. There is a changeover trip in WTT 84 (12/6/61) off UpDt RR 11.19am, arr ECDt 12.43am - I shall work backwards through the WTTs to see when this started and what the other booked changeover trips are from ECDT. However there is something niggling away in the back of my mind about access to Acton via Lillie Bridge. I know the resignalling there was early '70. perhaps an excursion through a selection of Yellow Perils is in order. I shall delve deeper into this little puzzle, though it will take a bit of time, as I've got a couple of other things on the go (and I really must spend time with ai over the BH weekend!)
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on May 2, 2009 12:21:02 GMT
Jumping forward by several years and skipping lots of WTTs, I've just had a quick browse through WTT 91 (17/10/66), which is useful for a number of reasons - this particular copy of the WTT is hardbound (and somewhat easier to handle) and was formerly in the hands of the Piccadilly Line Controller so the additions, corrections and notes about 'push-in' trains are much more comprehensive than the previous decade or so.
I think, now, after quite a bit of enjoyable 'digging' there was not a booked 'Stores Train' from Acton Works to Upminster after the depot there opened, there were however a lot more 'changeover paths' of stock running Ety between depots, plus trial trips Acton - Ealing Broadway - Ealing Common and transfer trips tended to be booked via the Ealing end of Ealing Common in later years. By 1967 there was only one dedicated 'Stores Train' running east from Acton Works to Ealing Common only.
However, there are a lot of interesting posers that have been brought to light from looking at this period - perhaps I shall revisit the subject in a few months.
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
|
Post by DWS on May 2, 2009 20:35:46 GMT
The stores train to East Ham were worked by steam Loco & Waggons not DR passenger stock a friend of mine who used to a box boy at Whitechapel (1950's) told me today.
I think Upminster would have stores sent by road by the time it open.
Looking at maps of East Ham DR Car Sheds, it was flanked by two goods and four passenger lines between East Ham & Barking and may have not had any road access.
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on May 4, 2009 7:04:00 GMT
.....I think, now, after quite a bit of enjoyable 'digging' there was not a booked ' Stores Train' from Acton Works to Upminster after the depot there opened, there were however a lot more 'changeover paths' of stock running Ety between depots, plus trial trips Acton - Ealing Broadway - Ealing Common and transfer trips tended to be booked via the Ealing end of Ealing Common in later years. By 1967 there was only one dedicated 'Stores Train' running east from Acton Works to Ealing Common only. ......... The reason for running the transfer trips to Ealing Common Depot via Ealing Broadway was because the connection between the WB Picc platform at Acton Town and the depot was taken out when the area was resignalled for programme machine working ca. 1967. You couldn't get into Ealing Common from the east end any more. This was also the end of the District Acton Town destination.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on May 4, 2009 10:14:56 GMT
The stores train to East Ham were worked by steam Loco & Waggons not DR passenger stock a friend of mine who used to a box boy at Whitechapel (1950's) told me today. Quite possibly; however there were separate paths for ' Goods' (which later became ' Fr'ght' as well as ' Engine Trial Trip'); as I said upthread - there are quite a few posers that have come to light from this delve. Certainly a subject that merits a further look. I suppose it depends when the 'H' stock was transferred out of passenger service. WRT the Olympia connection (and this is only of tenuous value to the question) I should be getting a copy of the 1946 TTN for the restoration of services to the renamed Addison Road next weekend. The reason for running the transfer trips to Ealing Common Depot via Ealing Broadway was because the connection between the WB Picc platform at Acton Town and the depot was taken out when the area was resignalled for programme machine working ca. 1967. You couldn't get into Ealing Common from the east end any more. This was also the end of the District Acton Town destination. Oh yes; I've now found the Yellow Peril in the library! ;D
|
|