Damaged 92ts

It's a fair bet there'll be one or two cancellations - this happens on a daily basis across all lines but you'll never know about it. The service messages are [meant to be] based on what the customer is actually getting; it's not a comparison with the WTT.

As for the stone throwing issue, as ChrisW touches upon, it's nothing new. Plaistow was a recent problem area on the District, with daily attacks for about a week.....that never made the papers though. Another type of incidence which doesn't make the papers is that the yoof's are now wise to the fencing of not only the embankments along the East end of the District, but also the footbridges - they now climb of top of the 'caged in' footbridges and launch their attacks from there.

The fact that D stock cabs now have bullet proof windows says it all really....

For starters it generally happens when it's dark - so it can take a little while to realise that the loud noise being heard in a particular area is a stone (or other object) hitting the train(s) - unless of course the culprits are successful. It may also therefore be difficult to pinpoint exactly where objects are being launched from.

Let's say you suss out the location fairly quickly, and you've called the BTP (British Transport Police); they only have so many resources, and other crimes which will be more important. They also usually travel around the network by train (so if you suspend the service how will they get there?). Don't get me wrong, they do have road transport too - but it's all about priorities in relation to other more serious crime that may be taking place.

Most of this throwing things at trains stuff occurs out at the extremities of the lines - well that's obvious really given that the majority of zone 1 is underground (and it's not just the District and Central that have this problem, nor is it occurring only in East London). Naturally the BTP will put their resources where they think is best, and much of the time zones 1 & 2 will get the Lions share with the outer zones having longer response times.

The yoofs know this and therefore know they have a window of opportunity to attack several trains before making good their escape.

One final point, why should we give them the satisfaction of suspending the service? It's a bit like terrorists really - should we let them beat us? We could probably have a multi page thread on the morals of it all.....

There is no way 11 trains should have been capable of being attacked before the service was suspended (on H&S grounds) especially with the problem so close to turnback points. I recollect the District being suspended after just 3 trains were done. The Met police should have been called to attend, the BTP are too thin on the ground.

In that case, I hope that they get caught and never get out of prison for the rest of their lives!

Ok I know I'm speaking out of my anger, but the authorities do need to come down hard on these criminals! This kind of a recurring problem is just not on!!!

'Local Police', in this case the Met, can't go anywhere near the track where as the BTP are trained to do so.

It really does depend on the location of the culprits, which have to be pinpointed first - of course they cannot be located if the service is suspended as they won't have a target to attack and will thus disappear. It's that morals thing again probably, but do you want to catch them in the act and thus prosecute them, or take the service away just in case they get one on target leaving them to come back and do it again?

I've only known the District to be suspended if they're reported as being trackside - but it may well have been suspended as a precaution.

For the record, I've had my train hit by missiles on at least five, maybe six occasions (as in the cab specifically targeted); yes it's not nice but you've got to catch these people in the act or they will keep coming back.

EDIT: 21146 posted whilst I was typing - see what I mean, they're back again!

I understand several people have been detained, so here's hoping for convictions in due course.

Actually, the BTP's track/railway knowledge is often pretty slight, although they do seem marginally better than the Met police. I do recall at least one incident I've handled where the Met went on the track - but that was accompanied by a member of staff and with traction current off.

Well that says a lot of the public. If someone damaged my trains I'd be straight out there! If I find any faults I always report them. Then again people don't always think like me!

Fair play aswell!

One of the problems I have always found with reporting occurances is that quite often thing are reported but I have know that in the past things go carry on until something does happen. I can understand why things don't get raised as quickly as they should do but can also understand the flip side of the argument in that "well, if I call it in - i'll either get told to carry on anyway or that they will 'try' and get someone to me".

I know several friends and collegues of mine that have become so tired of the same old excuses that they will generally carry on regardless if they can and then report it as and when.

Great News - hope they throw the book at them, but it'll probably be the old slapped wrist treatment. Should be done for attempted murder.

Well I read that as two separate offences:

• Endangering Safety
  
• Criminal Damage

In railways terms, endangering the safety of the railway (to give it the proper name) carries the equivalent weight of something like driving without due care and attention on the roads - so it's a serious offence.

EDIT: Having delved a little deeper into the law etc, it seems I underestimated the level of the offences:

From this web page:

Damaging trains and endangering safety of users

The following legislation refers specifically to damaging trains and endangering the safety of users:

• Section 56 British Transport Commission Act 1949: summary offence of throwing missiles at rolling stock or static railway equipment. Punishable with level 3 fine (currently £1,000 or 3 months imprisonment).
  
• Section 33 Offences Against the Person Act 1861: offence if intent to injure or endanger the safety of persons on the railway, punishable by life imprisonment.
  
• Section 35 Malicious Damage Act 1861: penalises placing wood etc on railways, taking up rails, turning points etc with intention to obstruct, upset, overthrow or destroy rolling stock. Punishable by life imprisonment.
  
• Section 32 Offences Against the Person Act 1861: as above but with intent to endanger the safety of anyone travelling on the railway. Punishable with life imprisonment.

Well AIUI, if the suspects are between the ages of 10 & 14, as in this instance, it is down to the courts to decide if they criminally responsible for their crimes (ie, did they know what they were doing and what the consequences could be) - whether the parents come into play should it be deemed they are not I wouldn't profess to know.

I would suspect however that the reason they have been charged with two separate offences is to ensure the damage caused to the trains is recognised and dealt with.

Two remarks: first, non-stopping in the problem sections of the lines happens from time to times in Paris bus network (especially in "hot" suburbs!). Users unions quickly claim than honest people pay for a few hooligans!
second , the legal references in the acts dated 1949 and 1861 mention that exists an INTENTIOn to cause the damage. And this is some times difficult to proove!