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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 12:01:44 GMT
Passengers safe in DLR derailmentSource - BBC News
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 12:07:22 GMT
DLR is currently suspended between Bank/Tower Gateway and Westferry, and Mudchute-Stratford. From this I guess we can assume that derailment was on a bit of track that was recently worked on? And to think of it, that bit is pretty high above ground  They are lucky train did not fall down! |
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Post by thirstquensher on Mar 10, 2009 13:26:53 GMT
I don't think that would be likely anyway - the speed would never be high enough, and the barriers and shape of the track pit would surely keep the vehicle pretty much in line with the track.
I wonder if it was at the set of points just ahead of the track now leading to the new fly-under?
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Post by 21146 on Mar 10, 2009 14:02:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2009 1:29:00 GMT
I don't think that would be likely anyway - the speed would never be high enough, and the barriers and shape of the track pit would surely keep the vehicle pretty much in line with the track. The barriers would not hold back a train, they are there for staff and passenger safety during emergency detrainments and track maintenence. A derailing train would not even get as far as the barrier anyway. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 13, 2009 22:20:20 GMT
The RAIB is investigating ( www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/090310_west_india_quay.cfm) - a most interesting comment within the initial statement is this: "The train was being operated under manual control, following a software problem at Westferry junction a few moments before." It goes on to say: "The RAIB’s initial investigations show that neither the condition of the train nor the maintenance condition of the points contributed to the derailment." From those comments, I'm tempted to offer one or two theories - of course it would be absolutely wrong to say much more about this event until the RAIB releases their report [hopefully by the end of the year], but I can't help thinking there's a clue in the above  |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 13, 2009 22:26:23 GMT
There *are* dataloggers on the DLR, aren't there?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 14, 2009 3:46:23 GMT
I would be very surprised if they didn't have them.
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Post by madonion on Mar 14, 2009 15:45:50 GMT
Sorry, I don't think I'm as smart as you people lol. How could the train being under manual control cause a derailment?
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Post by 21146 on Mar 14, 2009 16:41:42 GMT
Sorry, I don't think I'm as smart as you people lol. How could the train being under manual control cause a derailment? Well to start with it could pass a danger signal and foul points set against it. |
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Post by madonion on Mar 14, 2009 18:02:39 GMT
oh ok but it didn't derail at points did it? from the image posted above it looks like the front derailed just before it entered West India Quay.
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Post by astock5000 on Mar 14, 2009 19:11:49 GMT
But there are points just before West India Quay.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2009 12:11:36 GMT
Sorry, I don't think I'm as smart as you people lol. How could the train being under manual control cause a derailment? I don't want to say too much until the RAIB releases their report, but I would say this: under computer control (as the DLR is most of the time), mistakes are less likely - put a human in control and mistakes are far more likely to be made. I shall give no more detail than that on my theories, but that's essentially what I was getting at. |
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Post by Chris M on Mar 15, 2009 14:43:17 GMT
Indeed compare the statement about this incident
With that about the derailment of a freight train at Stewarton, near Kilmarnock
and with that about the derailment of a freight train at East Somerset Junction on 10 November 2008
Note they make no statement regarding the driving of the DLR train.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 16:13:27 GMT
I remember the first passenger train incident on the DLR was in a similar location and circumstances, in 1991 I think.
There had been a problem which led to a train leaving Westferry heading towards Island Gardens being driven in unprotected manual ('emergency shunt') mode, and it collided at North Quay junction with a train leaving Poplar for Island Gardens under full automatic control.
John Prescott came on the TV with an uninformed rant about how the DLR had been built on the cheap and blaming that for the accident.
There may well be an accident report in the Railways Archive about this.
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Post by maxtube on Mar 15, 2009 21:30:24 GMT
John Prescott came on the TV with an uninformed rant about how the DLR had been built on the cheap and blaming that for the accident. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2009 11:01:00 GMT
I was delayed on Wednesday last week by a rather odd service pattern that could, I suppose, have related to this derailment in some way - I have had no official response yet.
I arrived at Bank that morning to see the DAISY showing three trains to Elverson Road - wrong route for me. I boarded the first, and alighted at Shadwell.
The next three or maybe four trains were going to Lewisham. I was on the phone trying to get information when a Beckton train finally got listed.
As I say, I have had no official response as yet. I am still wondering why those of us heading for the Royal Docks were kept waiting so long - it took 20 minutes for a non-Lewisham train to reach Shadwell.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2009 16:26:00 GMT
Unless I've missed it, does anyone know the number of the derailed vehicle, please?
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 4, 2010 16:37:40 GMT
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Post by Phil on Mar 5, 2010 15:11:03 GMT
Having read the report, all I can say is "what a chapter of failures of staff AND procedures AND kit". Far, far more than the usual combination of 3 or 4 unfortunate coincidences. We actually have things like points software being reprogrammed to autoreverse points even in front of a moving train (so long as it is not in the block section) and yet the points technicians and controllers were never informed of the change!!!! It's a bit long, but worth a read if you've got time: almost every aspect of the DLR operation and training came in for some stick. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2010 16:11:12 GMT
We had an interested read of this report. A real example of everything just slightly going wrong, and what can happen.
We were struck on reading the report by the change of the operating method of auto-reversing the points. As soon as this change was described (paragraphs 88-90), along with the way it was done, it was obvious that “that’s an accident waiting to happen”. And so it was, just one week after the change was made. The report finds the same, and instructed the operators to stop it without a proper assessment of the risks. To our amazement we find that Serco have just said they have now “done a risk assessment” and are not going to change back to the previous logic (paragraph 268-1). Why ever not?
We did look in vain in the report for them to ask the question “why did you change the logic in the first place?”, but it’s not in there as far as we can see.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 15:03:46 GMT
I think people are focussing a bit too much on the auto-reversing points. Quoting from paragraph 232 of the report: The automatic reverse function of the points is neither causal nor contributory.
This is because train CRO513 automatically called the route from Poplar into
West India Quay four seconds after 1125 points auto-reversed. If this route had
been called before 1125 points auto-reversed it would also have caused the
points to move into the reverse position before the arrival of train LEW109.
That is not to say that the RAIB was not correct to be concerned that this change in behaviour of the signalling system was neither communicated properly to staff nor a proper risk assessment carried out. |
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