DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Sept 14, 2006 20:54:39 GMT
Does anyone know if the new signals at Earls Court e/b will ever get commissioned? Can you give the numbers of the signals, please.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2006 0:55:39 GMT
EC5, REC7 and EC11 - the e/b platform starters. Their current shelf-mounted personas will be replaced with side-mounted tunnel-type personas. IIRC EC5 and REC7 have been replaced with the new signals bagged off, but EC11 has not yet been replaced.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2006 2:37:12 GMT
I shall ask later today at work and see if I can get an answer for you.
Unless of course aetearlscourt knows anything?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2006 7:43:19 GMT
its EC6 by the way as 5 refers to the points from west ken to platform 2 they are all wired up and ready to go just never been commissioned these have been like this now for approx 2 years but to the reason why god knows as EC6 (plat 1) and EC 11 signals at the moment do not get maintained every 6 weeks as they have a prohibation notice on them still due to the dangerous structure they are on. to maintain them requires a special zip tower (like a scaffold tpwer) to be erected and there is lots of health and safety rules put into place but i know none of the t/o's (aet's) from earls court do any work on them those on the job please refer to a traffic circular and under the prohibations look for D109J i think thats what it is off the top of my head ;D ;D ;D
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2006 7:59:19 GMT
For reference, the old thread is HERE. Nothing new since then as we already knew about the dodgy structures. Like I say, i'll see if I can find out anything later, at work.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 17, 2006 2:57:24 GMT
I've asked around and noboby has the answer - there is possibly one man who will know the answer, but he's on annual leave at the moment and returns when I start mine Unless someone else finds out first, I will keep asking - someone has to know and i'm determined to find them ;D ;D
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 18, 2006 1:11:32 GMT
I have gained some information on these new signal heads whilst having my SPAD interview chatting to a duty manager trains. These are basically his words and opinions (and he is aware I'm posting what he said here). Basically, because they are a new installation they were initially subject to a 'new works order' (oi, we need a new signal head, is there any money for it?). That caused an initial delay whilst approval was sought and funding secured. Because it is a 'new works order', a new method of working must be employed (ie, can't touch the already dodgy gantries). This means that scaffold towers / ladders / etc are needed - a possession. Trouble is, getting a possession granted in place as important as Earls Court is a bit like your chances of winning the lottery. The 'powers that be' will not run the risk of an over run for a 'new works order' as it would crucify the whole District line service. So it's all a bit in limbo......... On the plus side, the track at Earls Court will have to be replaced one day - when such a possession is planned, it is hoped the new signal heads can be made part of the work. That's the latest
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 15:52:17 GMT
the actual signal heads are in place i know for platform 1 not quite sure for platform 2 and all the necessary wiring is in place as i was working on EC6 last wednesday and thursday night (yes my fault for the delays on thursday morning) so i dont see what the problem is it must of been granted by the drawing office and the chief signalling engineer or otherwise it would of not got even that far the only thing it needs to actually work is to put the lamps in the lamp holders and then they will work
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 17:58:12 GMT
[OT] Why did my starting post get deleted? This thread now randomly begins with DWS's post, yet it still says that I started the thread - WTH? [/OT] Admin comment: we will look into that for you - Colin.
I find myself unimpressed with the lack of traction on this issue - why on earth should perfectly usable signals not be commissioned simply because someone is afraid that the works 'might' overrun?
At the very least, why can't the new signals be wired up as co-actors?
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Sept 18, 2006 19:57:41 GMT
I don't understand that at all. What is to stop an signal tech just disconnecting the gantry signal heads and connecting up the new ones? Without a design? Oh no, they won't do that. They're too scared and then the work isn't being done in a controlled manner. Without Assurance? No-one will let us. And what is to say the old cables are in an acceptable state to be re-used, let alone if they are legally allowed to be? So the required things are: WPE Submission (Works Plant and Equipment - Sumission to HMRI), Project Assurance Plan, Safety Review and Change Control, Conceptual Design Statement (per discipline), Concept Submission (to all Asset Engineers), Compliance Submission, (And Asset Engineer Sign-off) Correlation, Detailed Design (Earl's Court is a lead covered cable site and these signals would need to be run in Concentric so the issue of keeping the NX intact becomes an issue, the trainstops probably would need rewiring as well. I've just had a design for Harrow on the Hill approved where we had to do just that), Civils enabling works, lead time on materials, resources to do the work, Human Factors assessment for the new positions, signal sighting committees, finding a Principles Tester and Tester in Charge to test it, etc etc. BTW, the detailed design must be issued within six months of the correlation being completed, otherwise the correlation data is viewed as out of date and must be redone. Once you take into account the need for a Project Manager, Project Engineer (for the Assurance) and a Planner, and you can see why these sorts of things take the time they do. They are not five minute jobs. As for why the job has stopped, I don't know, but I do know who was working on it.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 19, 2006 8:38:27 GMT
Oh the wonders of modern methods! Round and round in ever decreasing circles until they disaapear up their own tookus with a 'POP' Shouldn't that be with a 'PPP'
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Sept 19, 2006 17:17:13 GMT
Oh the wonders of modern methods! Round and round in ever decreasing circles until they disaapear up their own tookus with a 'POP' Yes but it does mean we have to demonstrate the work is being done in a controlled manner, not like in the 'good old days' where it got bodged and someone else had to pick up the pieces. 99% of the wire count anomalies I get come from people in the past either not doing something, doing something different to the design and not telling anyone or doing something without a design and not telling anyone. While the system we have now isn't perfect, it's a lot better than it was and yes, part of it is PPP related, as Metronet have to prove to LU that they are doing things correctly, but it was always there that LU had to satisfy HMRI that they were doing things in a safe manner.
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