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Post by max on Feb 24, 2009 7:02:20 GMT
Don't know how much people follow the model scene in general, but with Bachmann's recent announcement, here is what we can expect in the next couple of years all in OO:
4cep/Bachmann (yes, it really is happening, pre-production shots look great)
2epb/Bachmann (BR design unfortunately, Bachmann are notorious for making an announcement, then sitting on it for years, but this one was a surprise)
DEMU/Dapol (with possibilities for development into 2hap or 2epb, is Bachmann's announcement intended to head them off?)
MLV/Replica (a long time coming, test shots look nice).
Why raise this? Well, if I had predicted that this would happen one day, I would have been accused of being deranged. My suspicion is that the London Underground potentially just as popular a model railway subject as the Southern, so what might be possible?
I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that a CO/CP stock train would be a viable model. Commissioned either by a model shop or the London Transport Museum (Kernow, Hattons, and NRM have all commissioned unusual models). This design is possibly the most attractive electric train design anywhere in the world, and is certainly the most distinctive, which would widen its appeal. Many modellers will buy an attractive model just to own it. EFE have proved there is a market with their 1938/59/62 stock. [If only they had come up with easier motorising and coupling options.]
This choice would lead naturally to Q or R stock trains if there was sufficient demand. T stock, F stock, and Met locos would follow once the market had been established.
Of course, 1972 stock would be another good option, but surface stock is easier to motorise and get round corners.
It would be nice to push this sort of thing forwards if other people agree with me. Letter writing, lobbying etc. if necessary. Any thoughts?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Feb 24, 2009 10:23:40 GMT
Well it's about time EMU's were properly represented in the modeling arena, but a shame as well that that there's still no AC EMU from a mainstream manufacturer.
Mind you, I suppose most modelers have space constraint issues when it comes to replicating EMU's......
I think the LU model market is lacking because of a perception that only modelers close to London may be interested, and of course that it's difficult to model an underground railway. Of course the vast majority of the network is actually above ground but it's getting past that perception - to that end, tube stock types would probably struggle against the sub surface stocks.
Still, it's a start.........hopefully.......
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 24, 2009 10:27:16 GMT
I don't know if you've seen some of the layouts at Acton but they definitely show how it is possible to model an underground railway! Indeed, in some ways it would surely help, as its easy for helpful 'tunnels' to be used for track to disappear off the back.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Feb 24, 2009 11:56:34 GMT
I haven't no, and I won't make it to next months either [as I've got something else on that was arranged first and is a one off event] - however, my point was about peoples perceptions.
Indeed hiding some tracks, such as a 'fiddle yard', can be extremely useful for modelers - but I'm fairly certain that if you were to suggest building a LU model to most people, their first reaction would be "what's the point as it's all underground".
As I say, the vast majority of LU's network is actually above ground, but that's not how most people immediately think of "the tube".
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Post by max on Feb 24, 2009 14:52:12 GMT
Whenever I am at a model railway exhibition, even local ones, a Southern Electric or Underground layout always draws a lot of interest. We all get a bit cynical because of our familiarity, but there is a glamorous/exotic element to the London Underground.
Anyway, this is all straying from the point. If there is a market out there for rtr Southern Electric, why not London Underground?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Feb 24, 2009 18:11:42 GMT
Anyway, this is all straying from the point. If there is a market out there for rtr Southern Electric, why not London Underground? I don't don't think we're straying at all - surely I've stated the reason why there isn't a market for LU!  |
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 24, 2009 22:19:32 GMT
Of course, 1972 stock would be another good option, but surface stock is easier to motorise and get round corners. I would say that 67/72TS is a better idea as they ran in more liveries and on more lines than the CO/CP stock (as H&C and ELL were part of the Met at the time). But, there were a lot of places where you could see CO/CP stock with BR trains. A lot of people who have an underground train on their layout have BR as well. |
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Post by max on Feb 25, 2009 7:03:39 GMT
You can't know whether or not there is a market because you have no sales figures. You have no sales figures because there is nothing for sale. If there isn't a market, then why are the EFE 38/59/62 stock trains selling.
In America, NYC Subway r17/r22 cars are available ready to run rtr at very reasonable prices from Lifelike trains. In Germany, Hornby has rereleased Berlin S-Bahn trains.
OK, lets wait for six months. A couple of years ago, people would have said that there is no market for Southern EMUS, which was why no-one offered them for sale. With four to be available over the next couple of years, lets see what happens next.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Feb 25, 2009 10:26:34 GMT
OK, lets wait for six months. A couple of years ago, people would have said that there is no market for Southern EMUS, which was why no-one offered them for sale. With four to be available over the next couple of years, lets see what happens next. Now that's where we agree  ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2009 10:36:03 GMT
I saw here typing looking at my 4 car 62TS, 466 in Connex colour and my 'One' 170 in background on my shelves wondering why isn't there a 377/2 or 377/5 model coming out!
Although Ive not decided on whether or not to have a 4 or 6 car 395!
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Post by maxtube on Feb 26, 2009 17:59:04 GMT
1972 Stock will soon be made by Metromodels. They say 1983 Stock may come too!  |
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 26, 2009 21:56:59 GMT
1972 Stock will soon be made by Metromodels. They say 1983 Stock may come too! Metromodels said about the 83TS in February 2005. I'm not sure if they will ever do it, although it could be delayed because it is taking them ages to make the 3-car Standard stock. 72TS will be made by Metromodels, but I would like EFE to do it as it would be a better model, and would cost a lot less. |
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Post by max on Feb 27, 2009 7:51:53 GMT
67/72 is the only other candidate for a rtr set from someone like EFE I guess. Standard stock just had too much variety, and the shape is too difficult for a mainstream manufacturer to be interested.
Where does the expense come in making models these days? Obviously you need to get a drawing, and turn it into a mould, then tweek the mould. I ask because 73 stock seems to be stretched 67/72 stock on the surface, so once you have your 3D CAD drawings, these days can that be turned into a mould more cheaply in days gone by?
This is a convoluted way of saying that there might be a little bit more potential for 67/72 stock if it can be turned into 73 stock too.
If everyone is at the Depot (Metromodels say they will be on their website), plenty of chances to find out what is happening and make requests.
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Post by max on Feb 27, 2009 8:03:18 GMT
Quick follow up, London Transport gets a category on the 2009 Model Railway wish-list poll: www.mremag.comor direct www.gppsoftware.com/mremag/OOScalePoll2009.aspxNot sure I agree with the way they have split the stock though, CO/O and CP/P get separate categories, as do N and Q35. Have emailed Pat Hammond. |
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Post by 21146 on Feb 27, 2009 12:07:15 GMT
67/72 is the only other candidate for a rtr set from someone like EFE I guess. Standard stock just had too much variety, and the shape is too difficult for a mainstream manufacturer to be interested. Where does the expense come in making models these days? Obviously you need to get a drawing, and turn it into a mould, then tweek the mould. I ask because 73 stock seems to be stretched 67/72 stock on the surface, so once you have your 3D CAD drawings, these days can that be turned into a mould more cheaply in days gone by? This is a convoluted way of saying that there might be a little bit more potential for 67/72 stock if it can be turned into 73 stock too. If everyone is at the Depot (Metromodels say they will be on their website), plenty of chances to find out what is happening and make requests. EFE would be just as likely to give a 67/72 casting a half red front and sell it as a 73, just as some of their bus model versions have not strictly followed reality. |
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 27, 2009 22:02:58 GMT
Not sure I agree with the way they have split the stock though, CO/O and CP/P get separate categories, as do N and Q35. Have emailed Pat Hammond. They also split 67TS, 72TS Mk1 and 72TS Mk2! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 23:19:01 GMT
Interesting comment regarding special commissions from retailers/organisations. I believe that, so long as the price is right and there is insufficient demand for a mainstream model, then commissions are the way to go. However, the problem comes when someone commissions a model that would have mass appeal and puts a 'special commission' price tag on it because of the limited numbers being made. The prime example of this is the Kernow/Dapol DEMU (two-car unit, £149.50!). The market has been crying out for a DEMU for years. The sheer volume of Southern region models that Hornby produce and, more importantly, sell proves that there is a market for models of trains that actually ran south of the Watford Gap! Even the sceptical Bachmann have jumped on the Southern region bandwagon and three cheers for that! My point is that the Bachmann four-car 4-CEP unit will be available for two thirds of the price of a Kernow/Dapol 2 car DEMU!
If a special commission of an LT subject was made how many vehicles would you put in the sets and what would the price be? Better to fill in as many of the manufacturers questionaires and hope. Personally, I believe that the most commercially viable would be CO/CP stock. Two basic bodyshells, Minimal external modifications over a 40+ year service career and only two shades of the colour red! If that is a success then produce a further bodyshell and do R stock. Then, if these are a success, branch out into other possibilities.
Lest we forget, when Airfix GMR went under and the range was absorbed into Dapol and Mainline model railways, they were working on and had made a mock up of 1938 tube stock......
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Post by maxtube on Feb 28, 2009 10:34:36 GMT
I voted for:
1) 1983 Stock
2) D Stock
3) 1967 Stock
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 28, 2009 16:44:23 GMT
67/72 is the only other candidate for a rtr set from someone like EFE I guess. Standard stock just had too much variety, and the shape is too difficult for a mainstream manufacturer to be interested. Where does the expense come in making models these days? Obviously you need to get a drawing, and turn it into a mould, then tweek the mould. I ask because 73 stock seems to be stretched 67/72 stock on the surface, so once you have your 3D CAD drawings, these days can that be turned into a mould more cheaply in days gone by? This is a convoluted way of saying that there might be a little bit more potential for 67/72 stock if it can be turned into 73 stock too. If everyone is at the Depot (Metromodels say they will be on their website), plenty of chances to find out what is happening and make requests. EFE would be just as likely to give a 67/72 casting a half red front and sell it as a 73, just as some of their bus model versions have not strictly followed reality. That would be dreadful! The 73ts is nothing like the 67/72ts. The lengths, cab fronts, doors, windows and underframes are different! |
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 28, 2009 16:54:30 GMT
I don't think EFE would do that, as their bus models seem to be more accurate than they used to be.
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;D ;D
