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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2006 11:08:41 GMT
Sorry I don't know all the technical terms. On the refurbed trains, who has the final say whether the annoying announcements of what the next station will be, is turned on ? I've occasionally travelled on an early train and the builders and plasterers just want to go to sleep. Coming home at rush hour, we just want to read the paper / book in peace and it's bad enough with the plonkers on their phones. I noticed coming home late the other night - it was all turned off and very peaceful. Is it management diktat ? I can appreciate it is of some use in the central areas though. I heard a rumour that TV screens will soon be provided for our entertainment, but full of ads and also mobile phones will work in tunnels - woe woe woe. Grump grump grump. Can't we be left in peace ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2006 14:04:56 GMT
The Digital Voice Announcer, as it's called, is in place for helping handicapped customers. Same thing for the scrolling displays in place in the cars.
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Post by gabriel on Aug 6, 2006 14:59:55 GMT
AFAIK, the train/op can turn them off by pressing a button on the handset.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2006 15:34:32 GMT
AFAIK, the train/op can turn them off by pressing a button on the handset. The D Stock refurb DVA must be set up in order to get the Dot Matrix displays on the front, sides and in cars to operate. However the driver can, unofficially, disable the in car audio announcements by selecting the "fall back PA button" for making an announcement (there is a means of making announcements manually via the DVA equipment, but it is more cumbersome and offers no benefits), if you then don't depress the "push to speak" button on the handset, the DVA announcements are suppressed but no sounds from the cab are heard. I know some drivers hate the DVA as do some passengers, personally i find it a comfort and not intrusive, and i do listen to it in order to avoid closing the doors mid announcement (which cancels it). I also trip various "ad-hoc" announcements that exist, though some don't work properly. As Joe S quiet correctly points out it is there for the benefit of "handicapped" and indeed numerous other categories of our customers, i do feel the creators went overboard with the "at station platform" announcements which if allowed to run their course will most certainly result in late running. I personally have issues with drivers being "allowed" to disable it, and if "a word" is not had now, it will become a sort of custom and practice. But then when half the C stocks disable themselves each time the DM car goes over a railgap, with little done to deal with that problem, and if it truly aggravates some drivers to distraction I suppose it'd be another thorny issue ! Disabling the DVA though also disables the door chimes. I had a unit the other day where the East End cab DVA simply wasn't announcing, even though the digital displays were working and the door chimes were working  |
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TMBA
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Post by TMBA on Aug 12, 2006 17:38:35 GMT
AFAIK, the train/op can turn them off by pressing a button on the handset. The D Stock refurb DVA must be set up in order to get the Dot Matrix displays on the front, sides and in cars to operate. However the driver can, unofficially, disable the in car audio announcements by selecting the "fall back PA button" for making an announcement (there is a means of making announcements manually via the DVA equipment, but it is more cumbersome and offers no benefits), if you then don't depress the "push to speak" button on the handset, the DVA announcements are suppressed but no sounds from the cab are heard. I know some drivers hate the DVA as do some passengers, personally i find it a comfort and not intrusive, and i do listen to it in order to avoid closing the doors mid announcement (which cancels it). I also trip various "ad-hoc" announcements that exist, though some don't work properly. As Joe S quiet correctly points out it is there for the benefit of "handicapped" and indeed numerous other categories of our customers, i do feel the creators went overboard with the "at station platform" announcements which if allowed to run their course will most certainly result in late running. I personally have issues with drivers being "allowed" to disable it, and if "a word" is not had now, it will become a sort of custom and practice. But then when half the C stocks disable themselves each time the DM car goes over a railgap, with little done to deal with that problem, and if it truly aggravates some drivers to distraction I suppose it'd be another thorny issue ! Disabling the DVA though also disables the door chimes. I had a unit the other day where the East End cab DVA simply wasn't announcing, even though the digital displays were working and the door chimes were working Following up on this - the announcements if left to run the full length will make us all run late - Take Tower Hill for example, the station staff are ready with the right when the DVA is still in mid stream - so I as like the rest of us cancel the DVA unless its the peak or I know its needed by the blind or handicapped |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 12, 2006 17:45:49 GMT
How do you tell who has special needs or who hasnt? Not easy mate. Isnt the approaching station described by the dva? That should help visually impaired people at least.
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TMBA
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Post by TMBA on Aug 12, 2006 18:07:52 GMT
I normally find that Blind/visually impaired peeps are at the front of the train and I usually ask where they are getting off, otherwise station staff help them onto the train and then tell me where they are getting off, if they dont tell me I ask the controller to contact the station and then find out where they are getting off.
Usually Blind/visually impaired peeps know exactly where they are going and are quite aware where they are.
The same applies to special needs persons as well most of the time.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 12, 2006 18:15:01 GMT
Yes I agree with you that visually impaired passengers know a lot and are usually a lot more savvy than other customers. However the point I was making was that there are certain disabilities that are not discernable at first glance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2006 18:41:29 GMT
If the 'At Station' announcements can cause late running (and are quite annoying anyway), cannot an executive decision be made to turn them off permanently? Most of the content those announcements deliver are said before the train enters the station anyway. On some older trains the speakers are quieter (or at least I think the 67s are) but there's no getting away when CELIA talks to you in-tunnel on the 95s, so that argument which I previously advocated is sort of redundant.
As long as the announcement is delivered before the station, loud enough to overcome the tunnel noise (pollution!) then all people (handicapped and non-handicapped) will know to get off at the next station.
Edit: Or, if the above isn't possible due to some regulation, why not at least kill the interchange options and just have "This....is Tower Hill. This is a District line train....to Upminster" (the destination is useful for those boarding) when in platform with interchange options being announced in-tunnel? Surely that's a reasonable compromise, and would finish before the doors closed.
Edit 2: Just like to add that the DVA isn't just for the handicapped; when you're in a packed train, standing up and can't see out of the window, and you can't remember where you are atm, the DVA is a lifesaver for any passenger.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 12, 2006 19:12:28 GMT
They should surely be restricted to the station name and interchange options - if you want to get to Madame Tussaud's, you should know in advance what station to get off at. You can then listen out for this station name, rather than having it spoonfed to you. Simple  . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2006 20:36:38 GMT
Yeah, but then you've got the tourists, who might not know where to get off for certain landmarks etc. I've had a couple of Londoners ask me, when I was there, where do I get off for the Houses of Parliament .... I said: '' Listen to the voice when we get to Westminster! '' But, it's helpful for tourists, certainly |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2006 20:41:44 GMT
Pulled into South Ken on a D in November. T/Op comes over the tannoy, sounds mega annoyed... "Yeah, this is South Ken-sing-ton, get off here for the veeh-en-ay museum"
Looked around the carriage to see everyone just carrying on reading the paper etc...
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 12, 2006 20:47:07 GMT
One of Upminster's finest was it? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2006 20:50:06 GMT
Whoever it was, got off at UPM and dissappeared rather quickly up the footbridge...
Not like the one who, at Wimbledon, announced "This is a District Line train to Upminster, we will be taking the scenic route via Earls Court, Victoria, Whitechapel and East Ham"
The scenic part wore off a bit after Barking...
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 12, 2006 21:07:07 GMT
Usually get drivers saying "happy christmas" etc. Have to be careful [pc brigade] seeing as we are in a secular society.
Scenic ends at Barking? No, you forgot the high rises and the canals littered with supermarket trolleys.
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Post by robots on Aug 13, 2006 16:43:28 GMT
If only we did live in a secular society . This is one for the
rant section really !
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 13, 2006 16:55:32 GMT
Carry on - this sounds like an interesting rant!
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 13, 2006 23:14:10 GMT
Better not as secularism is tied in with religion, taboo subject. Might offend certain people.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 14, 2006 9:36:18 GMT
I'm glad we're back on topic.
Yes, religion etc is banned on all boards including rant, after a particularly nasty episode back before Christmas.
No, Xmas is not subject to Political Correctness, but neither is Diwali, Hannuka or any other religious festival. All the same.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 14, 2006 14:25:56 GMT
Have noticed a fair few T/ops, but not all, telling people about the Camden - East Finchley closures. Some dont. What are other lines like in respect of drivers giving details?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2006 16:07:42 GMT
On the District, I tend to give announcements where people need to change at a different station to get where they're going, e.g. last weekend DON'T change at Hammersmith for the H&C coz there ain't any!
But with the Northern closure, they still had to get on the Northern and go to Camden for the bus, so there didn't seem much point. Can't make too many announcements or they'll zone out!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 14, 2006 18:54:30 GMT
It very much depends on how relevant the infomation is; as adw say's, the H&C at Hammersmith is a little different to something on the Northern that's past Camden Town.
Also, some stations will pump out announcement after announcement - there's no point me doing another. That said, if I haven't heard many station announcements on the journey, I do like to make a quick one 'just in case'.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2006 20:25:06 GMT
But with the Northern closure, they still had to get on the Northern and go to Camden for the bus, so there didn't seem much point. Can't make too many announcements or they'll zone out! Wasn't it actually Euston the buses went from. I made the same mistake the week previous  Personally I believe on board announcements should only be made if the station visited has a reduced interchange OR it would be sensible to remain on the current train rather than change. For example in the South end of the Northern was shut an announcement at Bank/ Embankment on a District Line train would be useful. One 'dilemma' I've always pondered over, perhaps one of the T/ops could help solve my dilemma. When a train is being held on a platform, who should make the PA? Station or driver? Personally I believe the driver as they probably know more and if the station provides a different 'reason' for a failure from what the driver has already said, it makes the driver look a tad stupid. Whats the 'experts' view? |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 15, 2006 20:29:43 GMT
In my experience its the sa on the platform doing it, as he/she will be eyeballed, while the driver is ensconsed in his/her cab!
To be fair, some drivers do, but imho, its 70-30 to station staff.
Buses stop on the N/B only at Camden. S/B, they dont.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2006 21:36:48 GMT
One 'dilemma' I've always pondered over, perhaps one of the T/ops could help solve my dilemma. When a train is being held on a platform, who should make the PA? Station or driver? Whoever knows what's going on! Personally I'd make an announcement after a couple of minutes, even if I don't know what's happening. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2006 22:52:06 GMT
This seems as good a thread as any to express my thanks to the driver of the train I was on this afternoon for her efforts to keep us informed as we progressed ever so slowly towards Earl's Court off the Wimbledon branch (this was a little before 2pm IIRC) - it seems to have been one d**n thing after another on the District to-day...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 16, 2006 1:54:00 GMT
One 'dilemma' I've always pondered over, perhaps one of the T/ops could help solve my dilemma. When a train is being held on a platform, who should make the PA? Station or driver? Personally I believe the driver as they probably know more and if the station provides a different 'reason' for a failure from what the driver has already said, it makes the driver look a tad stupid. Whats the 'experts' view? Hmmm, always a tricky one, this  ;D Initially I do a "adw" and say something, even if it's a 'I know nothing' message. In my experience, I generally find the station staff often know more than I do! The trouble is people on the train can't hear the platform PA, and people on the platform can't hear the train PA. More often than not I let the station staff do their thing, then follow it up with a train bourne one. This seems as good a thread as any to express my thanks to the driver of the train I was on this afternoon for her efforts to keep us informed as we progressed ever so slowly towards Earl's Court off the Wimbledon branch (this was a little before 2pm IIRC) - it seems to have been one d**n thing after another on the District to-day... An emergency timetable was introduced (around 1pm I believe) - inevitably this takes time to implement, but I gather it worked fairly well in the end. |
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Post by cj2003 on Aug 29, 2006 9:00:05 GMT
However the driver can, unofficially, disable the in car audio announcements by selecting the "fall back PA button" for making an announcement (there is a means of making announcements manually via the DVA equipment, but it is more cumbersome and offers no benefits), if you then don't depress the "push to speak" button on the handset, the DVA announcements are suppressed but no sounds from the cab are heard. Be carefull when doing this, as it will have another consequence that is rather unfortunate. The announcements are not disabled, only postponed. As the displays and DVA's are aligned to be shown at the same time, the system 'pauses' when Fall back PA is selected and doesn't change the information in the displays. The internal displays keeps the latest information shown to the customers - and continues doing so until the Fall back PA is closed again. So you risk to show the customers wrong information in the displays and there will be no audio as long as the Fall back PA is selected. When the Fall back PA is closed, the audio will play the latest message it should have played and show new information in the displays. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 19:22:11 GMT
However the driver can, unofficially, disable the in car audio announcements by selecting the "fall back PA button" for making an announcement (there is a means of making announcements manually via the DVA equipment, but it is more cumbersome and offers no benefits), if you then don't depress the "push to speak" button on the handset, the DVA announcements are suppressed but no sounds from the cab are heard. Be carefull when doing this, as it will have another consequence that is rather unfortunate. The announcements are not disabled, only postponed. As the displays and DVA's are aligned to be shown at the same time, the system 'pauses' when Fall back PA is selected and doesn't change the information in the displays. The internal displays keeps the latest information shown to the customers - and continues doing so until the Fall back PA is closed again. So you risk to show the customers wrong information in the displays and there will be no audio as long as the Fall back PA is selected. When the Fall back PA is closed, the audio will play the latest message it should have played and show new information in the displays. Interesting ! Caution not needed by me as I don't do it at all, I see the DVA as a bonus not a hinderance ... though I have often had trains handed to me with it done !! |
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