|
Post by stanmorek on Feb 2, 2009 16:08:21 GMT
Spare as thought for the Infracos! I mean no one knew this was coming (did they?) Which two thirds are under direct management of LUL. Surely nothing can go wrong?
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Feb 2, 2009 16:15:33 GMT
Out of interest. Does the blurb relating to delays count weather as being circumstances outwith the control of LU? I know that for things such as refunds they won't pay back passengers if the circumstances were classed as being outwith their control...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 16:21:31 GMT
I had work related reasons to attempt to head for Wokingham today, from Colindale.
I made my way through the snow and boarded the first train, considering my options on how to reach Waterloo. I'd heard the Jubilee Line had problems, but was still running on that stretch, and at my intended departure time, the Waterloo & City line would probably not be open. As it was, it was suspended. Euston and Elephant stations were also closed initially, so my initial plan was to go to Kennington and then take a northbound CX branch.
Slow progress, due to what we were told was ice in the door system, meant that both Elephant and Euston were open again before we got far. I considered my options further, changing onto the Victoria Line at Euston and onto the Bakerloo Line at Oxford Circus - level changes so probably the simplest option.
I arrived at Waterloo to find SWT only operating a skeleton service, but they advised they were expecting a train to Wokingham before too long. Unfortunately, by my last possible time, no train had appeared. I therefore decided to return home - direct on the Northern Line this time. An uneventful journey - though by this time Brent Cross station had closed.
Well done to all involved in keeping the bits I needed running.
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Feb 2, 2009 16:33:00 GMT
I recall when we had this much snow in January 2003. Getting from Canary Wharf to Stanmore in the evening rush hour wasn't much fun. Jubilee line trains couldn't get further north than West Hampstead/Kilburn as their wheels kept slipping on ice on the rails going uphill. In all it was a 7 hour round trip. This time I didn't take any chances.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 2, 2009 16:46:42 GMT
How come the Waterloo and City is suspended due to the weather? It's all Underground! Staff shortage. They come from a common pool with the Central Line. Given that there was virtually no service at Waterloo mainline this morning, running the Drain would have been a waste of time.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Feb 2, 2009 16:48:08 GMT
Out of interest whats the power output of a heated point?
|
|
|
Post by johnb on Feb 2, 2009 17:07:52 GMT
Was there a specific problem around Aldgate/Aldgate East today? Because I can completely understand why the outer parts of the network had major problems, and that short-staffing was an issue - but can't see why that would have precluded running a service between Liverpool Street and Whitechapel on the H&C (or Tower Hill on the Circle). Instead, even though the H&C was running from Hammersmith to Aldgate, and the District from Tower Hill to Upminster, there was no interchange aside from an icy trudge between the two Aldgates...
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 2, 2009 17:10:02 GMT
I can't believe the toy railway (DLR) copes ok with this, but apparently it does. Well, one advantage it has is that you're not likely to get snow setting on the contact surface of a bottom-contact conductor rail!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 17:11:03 GMT
How come the Waterloo and City is suspended due to the weather? It's all Underground! Staff shortage. They come from a common pool with the Central Line. Given that there was virtually no service at Waterloo mainline this morning, running the Drain would have been a waste of time. The depot/sidings at Waterloo are also partially exposed and could be affected by snow - don't know if that's what happened today though. Someone said they had a big snow drift in there but that might have been a joke!
|
|
|
Post by stanmorek on Feb 2, 2009 17:18:33 GMT
Southbound Charing Cross Northern line trains were held at Camden Town for a short while this morning. The driver cited traction current problems ahead. Anything to do with the amount of snow melting off trains?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,348
|
Post by Colin on Feb 2, 2009 17:36:20 GMT
Was there a specific problem around Aldgate/Aldgate East today? There was traction current supply problems in the Aldgate/Tower Hill area at around 7am, though of course that on it's own doesn't answer your question. I suspect the C stocks left in Barking sidings (the state of the snow on them was the obvious reason), along with the C stocks dumped at Parsons Green & Putney Bridge on the District side things........and coupled with the difficulties of some drivers in getting to work, all combined to reduce the service the H&C/Circle was able to offer.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Feb 2, 2009 17:45:04 GMT
... a points failure ahead of me at Whitechapel resulted in a wrong direction move back to Stepney Green... Fo the benefit of us track-bashers, and because I can't find a track map, did this involve an in-service move back to a cross-over please?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,348
|
Post by Colin on Feb 2, 2009 17:47:59 GMT
As an aside as well for all those critics out there.....
When things are running as per the timetable, drivers have relief's at different points on most lines - some like the District, Central & Northern have at least 4 locations where this can occur (ie not all relief's occur at a single location). All this depends heavily on trains running pretty much within 20 minutes or so of the booked timetable.
Once trains start going massively off timetable, crewing of trains becomes a logistical nightmare. And once drivers get off their first train after they should have picked up their second train, the timetable really does go out of the proverbial window.
There are also agreements on maximum driving times (for humane reasons if nothing else), and once they are exceeded, the train service really does pay for it.
This is what essentially happened today when all the points failures, drivers unable to get in and such like occurred - once train crewing can no longer match the planned timetable, there's little hope of recovering a meaningful service.
Most us that have worked today have done our very best to provide a service (and that includes service control, duty managers and station staff), but there's only so much that can be done with the resources available.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,348
|
Post by Colin on Feb 2, 2009 17:49:45 GMT
... a points failure ahead of me at Whitechapel resulted in a wrong direction move back to Stepney Green... Fo the benefit of us track-bashers, and because I can't find a track map, did this involve an in-service move back to a cross-over please? No - I was on the approach to Whitechapel westbound and was at EN1's. The move back to Stepney Green was a straight forward drive in the opposite direction on plain track.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Feb 2, 2009 18:01:59 GMT
Cheers! One to be noted though.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,198
|
Post by Tom on Feb 2, 2009 18:15:52 GMT
Out of interest whats the power output of a heated point? The transformers are rated at 4kVA IIRC. In terms of heat - you only feel the heat effect once to know not to touch them again! One of my colleagues found this out on a training course when he sat on the switch rail, unaware the heaters were on.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Feb 2, 2009 18:33:35 GMT
Poor guy! Thats a four bar fire, if there were such a thing. I'm suprised he didnt burn himself.
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Feb 2, 2009 18:45:49 GMT
Do the staff who can't get to their usual workplace because of the weather, have to go to the nearest railway location to get paid? Council workers for example must go to their nearest council location if unable to get to their usual workplace, and offer their services there - otherwise they don't get paid.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,348
|
Post by Colin on Feb 2, 2009 18:57:43 GMT
They are supposed to, but it's quite often at the discretion of the duty manager concerned - as long as you phone in and state your difficulties, it's then up to your duty manager to decide how to play it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:02:46 GMT
Southbound Charing Cross Northern line trains were held at Camden Town for a short while this morning. The driver cited traction current problems ahead. Anything to do with the amount of snow melting off trains? There was a smouldering pot on the positive rail at Mornington Crescent SB plat and traction current had to be discharged for a few mins for the supervisor to smash it out.
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Feb 2, 2009 19:03:20 GMT
Obviously, if there were absolutely no way of them getting in, that's understandable. But if (say) a station assistant were stuck at a different station it would make sense to use them there.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Feb 2, 2009 19:13:57 GMT
That would make sense but surely its a question of training and familiariaty. Since station staff work in centuries, it might be difficult for someone to go another groups stations. Presumably one has to be 'passed' for each station learnt?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:26:27 GMT
Hi Guys, Having been one of the drivers on a night shift last night we had all sorts of problems well before the end of traffic! There were Districts backed up from Ealing Common depot via Ealing Broadway and back to Hammersmith even at 0300. The South Harrow stabler stalled at North Ealing and even with the ERUs help didn't get to South Harrow til after 4. This meant we couldn't get all the sleet trains out as some trains coming out of the depot weren't even being picked up on Trackernet! There were points failures everywhere. Even being spare I was running around all over the place and even finished on OT coz I got stuck. I have never seen the snow piled right up level to the top of the running rails. Sure we all knew it was coming but everything we did last night seemed to be useless. Looking forward to dealing with it all again tonight!! DOC
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:38:22 GMT
Maybe a bit off-topic, but here goes: I found this image on a norwegian online newspaper: www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2009/02/02/1233583238839_952.jpgWhere is this? I'm quite sure it is on the Central, Jubilee or Northern, because to the train shown (maybe not the jubilee, because of the map, and AFAIK, there's no branches on the jubilee), so I just wonder: Is this Loughton on the Central? For me it looks like Flinchley Central, between the NB and MHE platform
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:41:58 GMT
Looks like Wembley Park to me. (NB Met on the left)
DOC
|
|
|
Post by ribaric on Feb 2, 2009 19:42:38 GMT
Not Loughton.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:46:33 GMT
Hm, thats a good point, didn't think that some lines share stations
|
|
|
Post by version3point1 on Feb 2, 2009 19:46:38 GMT
That be Wembley Park in the photo. Took me 2 hours just to get to Baker Street this morning – 1 hour just to get from Eastcote to a signal outside of Wembley Park. Got to Baker Street at 08:00 (and I was supposed to be a 07:00 book-on). By that point, the Bakerloo Line was the only other line out of Baker Street, so I got that south, but it was non-stopping at Waterloo. I thought I was lucky when the train did stop there and was just given the all clear, but the Jubilee Line ended up dying a death there and then and I just booked on at Waterloo for while. Had to go through London Bridge at some point. Eastbound platform was heaving (passengers were queuing up on the concourse to get to the platform). I managed to sift through the crowd a bit and get around two or three carriages from the front, but because everybody was taller than me and bigger then me, I soon found myself trapped against the wall and couldn't see a thing or when the next train was, so I started to panic a bit because I then couldn't make my way back out! Luckily one of my colleagues on the handle spotted me on the platform and told me to hop in the cab. Another colleague was in with us (the nightman who'd had the train stall trying to climb up the hill out of West Hampstead). Poor guy had managed to book off at Baker Street, but needed to get to Victoria to get home (to get the mainline to Margate). He walked all the way from Baker Street to Victoria and thought he was homeward bound when he managed to catch a train out of there... but then got detrained at Clapham! Poor guy had to go all the way back to Stratford seeing as he was stranded and has decided he's just going to kip there!
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Feb 2, 2009 20:00:21 GMT
What was the UndergrounD like in the winter of 1962-3 then? I can't recall as we lived in Feltham, then in beloved Middlesex, and school was a walk away. My Nanna (maternal grandmother) lived in Hounslow West but she used to do a part-time job in Hounslow High Street so went by bus. Did the stock in use at the time cope better with the white stuff?
LATEST NEWS: rain promised for Thursday!
|
|
|
Post by mrjrt on Feb 2, 2009 20:11:17 GMT
As I've been asked to post here instead....
"I was wondering...the Vic is running fine as it's entirely in tunnel (depot notwithstanding). The Bakerloo is suspended north of Queens Park as you'd expect....but apparently the Bakerloo is running with delays. Is this purely down to the fact that trains can't get from Stonebridge Park depot to Queens Park? "
|
|