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Post by Tom on Jan 20, 2024 14:36:32 GMT
Do you mean Moor Park or Croxley? (Not that there are points at either location.)
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Post by Tom on Jan 14, 2024 15:51:08 GMT
It's not the greatest - I can certainly recall entering a location and it deciding I wanted to go somewhere else, which wasn't even served by TfL services!
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Post by Tom on Jan 11, 2024 13:19:24 GMT
B is Uxbridge sidings.
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Post by Tom on Jan 10, 2024 22:22:30 GMT
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that in the real world. Some members will know I work very closely with the 4LM team, so I'll try to explain as much as I can without going into specifics... What exactly is causing the delay in commissioning this area? There are a few factors. The complexity of the area and the need to interface the CBTC system to the Jubilee Line TBTC and the Neasden Depot signalling systems are one factor. The 12 hour closure in November last year was of critical importance to test some of those interfaces and the commissioning of SMA8 was heavily reliant on the testing evidence that the closure gave. Let's be clear here - this is the most technically complex part of the project. Secondly, access is a major factor. The last train stables in Neasden depot at 0104 and the first departs at 0435. However, even if the last train finishes on time there is a need to undertake shunting within Neasden depot which at the southern end requires a working signalling system. It's often 2am before staff can start work, and in that time they need to do their work, reinstate the existing system(s) and test them all ready for the start of service the next day. Testing all three systems for handback takes around an hour. So assuming staff don't get access until 0200, they need to test and be off the track by around 0410, and the testing time takes an hour, that leaves around an hour and ten minutes of useable access time. What about weekends? Doing weekend work in this area requires the suspension of both lines. This is a big ask at the best of times and coupled with the frequency of events at Wembley, means there are very few opportunities to carry out weekend testing. Even if weekends were no object, the fact that we are working with Safety Critical Software means that each software release to fix a problem found in testing (which is inevitable given the complexity of the area) needs to go through a rigorous testing regime before it can be used even with test trains. This cannot be turned around overnight, or else you get Boeing 737 Max 8 style errors. On a non-safety critical (but equally life changing) level, look at the damage poorly produced software in the Post Office's Horizon system caused. So in a nutshell, the major delays are technical complexity and access to the railway to do work. None of this should be a surprise - I fully expected this section to take a long time based on those factors alone and quite frankly when I was first introduced to how the systems would interact in this area, back in September 2019, it frazzled my brain. I totally agree that focusing the Design/Assurance team on progressing work up the Met has the biggest wins and is the critical path to project completion. It does seem however that design and installation work is still progressing elsewhere. Aren't further District line SMAs ready and worth LUL/the passenger getting the benefit from ASAP? Hardware design is now largely complete and installation is progressing. Software design is still ongoing, in the agreed order, which matches the order of installation/testing progress in other SMAs. Consequently, testing (of any kind) in the remaining District SMAs has not yet commenced. There is little benefit in dropping, for example, SMA13 or 14 software design to commence design of SMA12 software, when SMA12's hardware is still being installed. So, to answer your question, no - further District line SMAs are not ready.
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Post by Tom on Jan 9, 2024 14:43:21 GMT
Briefest of answers, but (1) Yes, (2) No.
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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 21:24:12 GMT
There was a very good presentation to the PWI London Section on this subject a few years ago.
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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 20:04:30 GMT
Batch 3 (which includes the Met coaches) are cancelled as Hattons are closing. More info here.
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Post by Tom on Jan 7, 2024 17:52:22 GMT
As has been observed by others, the Bakerloo line signalling was renewed in stages between 1987 and 1991. While some components such as signal heads were reused, the wiring was almost 100% replaced. There are some electronic components that are reaching the end of their design life but nothing that cannot be replaced. The good thing is that unlike other lines, London Underground still possesses the skills to do modifications in-house!
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Post by Tom on Jan 3, 2024 18:00:35 GMT
The only person who has used the phrase "eastern bloc" in this thread is you, from what I can see. Other posters have used "Eastern Europe".
The additional C stock cars were new bodies (I believe everything below the solebar was reused) manufactured by Bombardier at a factory in Hungary. I would interpret the "bespoke" phrase to mean that they were two 'specials' manufactured using the original drawings, rather than a a large batch or a new fleet.
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2023 21:14:18 GMT
It's a full renewal of the scissors crossover which is located under the bridge. The renewal uses the LU 'Baby Kirow' cranes for the first time on a P&C renewal and there is limited clearance for them to work under the bridge.
Five days for a job like this is not unreasonable - I was the signals Tester in Charge for the first two modular scissors crossover installations at King's Cross and Earl's Court and the combined track, signalling, and power works for both of those took six days (and seven nights).
There will be no train service to Northfields in this time - the WB fast will be needed for the Engineer's Trains servicing the P&C renewal site. The days of running a train service three metres away from staff on the track undertaking major engineering works have long since passed - and rightly so.
Trains needed to operate the working timetable will have to come from Uxbridge, South Harrow, Acton Town, Arnos Grove and Cockfosters. There will be no access for service trains to and from Northfields Depot which will almost certainly be part of the possession with traction current off.
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Post by Tom on Dec 20, 2023 21:22:12 GMT
I'm sure that Tom can comment with more authority, but I believe that while old and new Victoria line stocks were running at the same time, both were communicating with the same signalling system Jimbo's post above is correct. Detected by the old with movement authorities passed by the existing signalling to the 1967 stock trains, and with the new system 'listening in' on the existing and passing movement authority (based on the geography of the existing system) to the 2009 stock trains.
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Post by Tom on Dec 15, 2023 18:37:22 GMT
One of the things I was taught as a design engineer producing circuit schematics was that you avoid dog-legs wherever possible. If you need to more space, take more space.
Based on the legend that the map design was based upon electrical circuit diagrams, then I would suggest the map designers took the time to re-learn those golden rules rather than trying to shoehorn everything into the available space - the treatment of the Piccadilly line's Heathrow branch and the way the Central and Elizabeth lines weave around the map to meet and separate from each other are very poor examples of trying to be clear and concise.
Personally, I think it would be much better if the 'Tube Map' reverted to being just that. Add interchange symbols for other modes, yes, and then produce separate network maps for those modes. There is, for example, a good reason why the Berlin map only shows U- and S-Bahn routes rather than the trams as well - the trams are disproportionately concentrated to the East of the City and have far more frequent stops than the heavy rail services.
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Post by Tom on Nov 30, 2023 19:13:55 GMT
I've pruned a number of posts in this thread where the discussion went a bit off-topic and got a little heated. Please try to consider the perspective of others when you post.
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Post by Tom on Nov 27, 2023 23:26:13 GMT
I can't make it this year, unfortunately.
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Post by Tom on Nov 23, 2023 13:22:12 GMT
Looks like Langley.
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Post by Tom on Nov 21, 2023 21:49:32 GMT
I've got a set somewhere; I'll double check but I thought they were rated for traction voltages. The negative rail issue is more of a concern/consideration I think.
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Post by Tom on Nov 18, 2023 14:17:55 GMT
Then in 1986 T4 loop opened so all trains operated via T4 and only via the eastbound platform 2 at T2&3. Between 1986 and the closure of the T4 loop in 2005 (for construction of the extension) eastbound trains used both platforms at Terminals 1, 2 & 3, alternating between platforms. Trains had several minutes booked to stand there. This stand time for loop trains is now taken at Terminal 4.
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Post by Tom on Nov 16, 2023 8:35:53 GMT
Northwood.
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Post by Tom on Nov 16, 2023 8:28:07 GMT
Also, “we are being held by the signalling system” is more 'inclusive'. No, it's more technically accurate.
I've noted your choice of words though, and it sounds to me like a very high pitched dog whistle - make further comments in that vein and they'll be added to your special thread in the deleted posts section.
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Post by Tom on Nov 14, 2023 14:22:29 GMT
I think C is Uxbridge.
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Post by Tom on Nov 12, 2023 23:23:40 GMT
Hanger Lane Junction.
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Post by Tom on Nov 2, 2023 21:26:56 GMT
It's a complicated one but Test Train Operators usually need past experience as a 'regular' Train Operator on two or three different lines and stocks prior to applying, ideally as an Instructor Operator on one of those. Some TTO's have previously worked as Engineers Train Operators and are qualified to operate Engineers Trains for testing purposes, but generally ETOs are not qualified to operate passenger stock as a TTO is.
There was a period in the PPP era where TTOs came under Metronet and ETOs came under Tubelines, and due to a lack of TTOs, some ETOs were trained to operate 1996 stock for TBTC testing. From memory it caused some Trade Union issues!
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Post by Tom on Nov 1, 2023 19:48:38 GMT
2024 stock might need battery loco haulage if not enough / any crew are available who could drive 2024 stock over the route suggested ? Battery loco crews would know it all; not sure where test train crews fit in here as I don't know where test crews are drawn from. As far as I understand, if a train has to run as part of an Incompatible Train Movements Procedure it would be crewed by Test Train Operators as t697 suggests above. TTOs are the only group who would have both the route, stock, and rules knowledge. No need to use Engineer's Train Operators, who probably don't get involved with ITMPs.
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Post by Tom on Oct 31, 2023 21:37:58 GMT
The Berth in Ruislip siding is particularly generous and would probably take a 2024 Tube Stock train plus Battery locos at either end assuming that a 2024 stock train is not longer than the existing 1972 stock. However, it would probably be the only berth that would support such a train! but would need battery locos to and from the Bakerloo over CBTC/TBTC lines. Why would Battery locos be needed? The 1972 stock fleet can run on the Jubilee line quite happily without them today as an incompatible train (under procedure).
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Post by Tom on Oct 28, 2023 20:01:47 GMT
Is it not that the new trains will have a lower floor to enable level access, and thus the treadplates will be lower (potentially almost level with the existing platform height)?
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Post by Tom on Oct 25, 2023 20:23:46 GMT
Many years ago we had engineering work Liverpool St - Marble Arch or wherever and we were reversing via the west to east shunt. One driver missed the "limit of shunt" board and ended up at Bank That's happened a few times at different limit of shunt boards. They're generally not permitted for new installations and a controlled signal should be provided to terminate the move * - I'm surprised they persisted on the Central considering the change in philosophy came at a similar time. (The Central line resignalling may have come slightly ahead.) * - When King's Cross (Circle) was resignalled in 2015 we provided both at the request of the Train Operator TU reps, though there was no technical reason for the Limit of Shunt sign.
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Post by Tom on Oct 22, 2023 19:04:29 GMT
Yes - the system cannot differentiate between them.
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Post by Tom on Oct 21, 2023 14:00:09 GMT
The only thing this appears to have sorted out is getting trains in the right sequence onto the core but is it essential to do that at such a delay cost ? No, but it does seem to be a common practice on the Elizabeth line. A lot of their service recovery techniques seem to involve disrupting the journeys of as many passengers as possible to arrive on time at a terminus or similar minimal gain.
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Post by Tom on Oct 16, 2023 6:44:52 GMT
Indeed so, both are at the high-level design phase at the moment. The Parsons Green design cannot be implemented under the existing signalling system and will need to be done following the commissioning of CBTC in that area. TfL is due to move out of Lillie Bridge from 2024! I think it is fairly safe to say this date had several dependencies, one of which being the 4LM programme. With the delay in 4LM this is likely to be delayed in consequence.
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Post by Tom on Oct 15, 2023 17:45:24 GMT
Out of interest how far is the northern parts of the met away from being resignalled, I loose the plot on the detail of the dates. So do those of us working on the project! I'm not sure what the current programme date is for Harrow but I would imagine some time in 2025. There hasn't been any systems testing in SMAs 13 or 14 yet. Mod comment [goldenarrow]: Posts moved from 'Met Line suspension - Fri 13th' thread in Metropolitan line
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