|
Post by will on Aug 4, 2016 12:27:28 GMT
Will the nature of the plug doors rather than the standard tube style that seem to open and close much more quickly cause longer dwell times?
|
|
|
Post by will on Aug 2, 2016 19:44:13 GMT
I believe that the Crossrail core has the possibility to be upgraded to 30 tph if demand warrants it, so the argument about the frequency not being enough to justify calling it a tube line isn't really valid. I can honestly see both sides of this argument, but it's all about meeting the demands of the majority. In that sense, you will never be able to please everybody. Crossrail in the core section Paddington - Abbey Wood/Stephany Green Junction is being signalled using CBTC and will be capable of running a frequency of 30tph if required with a likely increase of 3tph on the eastern branches.
With the seating it does seem sensible to provide some groups of 4 seats as on the S8 stock, but unlike the Metropolitan Line where there are a group of 4 seats on one side of the train and the normal transverse seats on the other side this doesn't look to be the case on the class 345's. I really hope this doesn't have too much of a detrimental effect on station dwell times, as while this wont be much of an issue outside the core it will be a significant issue in the core. Other systems that have groups of seats i.e Merseyrail and Washington Metro have constant problems with long dwell times due to there being little space initially when people have boarded the train to move inside and people boarding and alighting in some cases in single file.
The whole debate about what is it a tube or NR line isn't really important as the fact is the line is being treated as a tube line and rightly so as this is how many of those using it will perceive it to be. Its a relatively high frequency line that will have deep level stations in central London, will appear on the tube maps, will have tube style signage and will be fully integrated with the tube in the cases of interchanges and station staffing arrangements at locations such as TCR.
|
|
|
Post by will on Aug 1, 2016 17:06:41 GMT
Does that now mean the station is one of the select few that have step free access?
|
|
|
Post by will on Aug 1, 2016 17:05:31 GMT
Every time you see one of these press releases there is a new managing director of London Underground 😂
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 30, 2016 18:56:39 GMT
I think the new DVA announcements are great! They give so much more necessary information that Londoners need. However, I think that some of them sound badly strung together - like when celia says, "National Rail Services" - it sounds like Celia's Jubilee line voice. Some of the announcements are quite badly strung together but at least they aren't still announcing "mainline suburban rail services" that confuse absolutely everyone
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 29, 2016 20:32:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 29, 2016 19:34:10 GMT
The S stock and even the class 378 London overground trains have much nicer interiors than the 345's
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 29, 2016 16:13:58 GMT
Some pictures from Bombardier of the first Elizabeth line train to be produced. The trains look very spacious but the groups of 4 seats seem to stick out quite a lot. On the S8 stock when they have a group of seats on one side they have longitudinal on the other so people can get past seems a bit daft to have them in this configuration. Also I really hope they change the colour of the floor as dark grey and black grab poles will make the trains look very drab.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 27, 2016 13:31:25 GMT
I k ow this may highlight my train systems ignorance but wouldn't it be possible to wire to carriages together so that 2 carriages could be seen by the trains computer as 1 carriage?
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 23, 2016 22:49:38 GMT
This week has been a complete disaster for the Central Line. Points failures on multiple occasions, dislodged current rail knocking shoes off a train, and probably something else I've missed. All seems to be track related though, could the cause be heat or just simply everything is becoming "tired/worn". Monday: Point failures at both White City and North Acton in the late afternoon then an eastbound train became stuck at Shepherd's Bush after losing all shoes. The current rail had become displaced. Train had to be evacuated. Tuesday: Faulty train at Notting Hill Gate just in time for the evening peak. Thursday: Signal failure at Holborn just after the evening peak. Friday: faulty train at Epping in the middle of the morning peak, Saturday - today major power supply problem and signal failure at Newbury Park. Not exactly the best of weeks how the line will make it until it gets its next round of investment through the NTFL programme I will never know.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 23, 2016 18:16:37 GMT
Apparently this is a power problem in the Bow area. Is this the same substation issue that caused a failure on the line a couple of months ago ? Thanks 😃 It seems to be Yeah it is I think as on the Central lines Twitter feed it has a picture of the 4 Tonne Electrical rectifier unit that needs replacing and they have to reduce service so that safety isn't compromised. I believe ( with the very limited electrical knowledge I have) is the device that converts AC power into DC power for the Central line but I thought power supplies either worked or they didn't how can it be working partially thanks 👍
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 23, 2016 11:21:21 GMT
Apparently this is a power problem in the Bow area. Is this the same substation issue that caused a failure on the line a couple of months ago ? Thanks 😃
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 20, 2016 20:42:06 GMT
Go on google images and click on the little camera in the search bar and you can actually upload the picture and it will find the source 😃
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 18, 2016 21:43:37 GMT
What on earth has gone wrong today first a major signal failure at White City then a faulty train at Shepherds Bush. The fault must be pretty major for them not to have moved it. Had it lost all its traction collection shoes or something?
Thanks
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 18, 2016 21:36:15 GMT
Another solution that's becoming more popular when people spot faults is to report it on the lines Twitter page.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 14, 2016 19:42:05 GMT
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 12, 2016 17:37:24 GMT
Sadly when something like this happenes in the investigation they usually find that someone somewhere is responsible with signalls incorrectly installed or the safety systems were functioning but were over ridden. Lets hope they have something similar to the RAIB that produces a detailed report and reccomendations so they whole system can improve.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 11, 2016 9:11:18 GMT
Unfortunately the doors wont open until the tbtc signalling system tells the train its safe to open them. Thats generally 3 seconds. On a line like the district with 40 stations end to end that 120 secs minimum of lost time through door opening or to put it another way 2 tph lost!! Still thats progress i suppose. I really hope Thales get their fingers out and sort out issues like these before the SSR is signalled as we can't cope with slow door openings on the SSR as maintaining the proposed 32tph service frequency on the core sections is likely to be difficult at times due to all the junctions etc. As well as that if they provide the same substandard product they did for the Jubilee and Northern lines we'll have half the Metropolitan line going non communicating and trains crawling into stations due to the minimum braking rate that apparently must be enforced on all open sections of track regardless of conditions.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 10, 2016 18:56:46 GMT
They have looked at the feasibility of PSGs (passenger safety gates) I.e half height PEDS and concluded that full PEDS are the best solution as
"Data confirmed that PEDs offer at least double the reliability of PSGs based on their simpler design which incorporates fewer components. The simplicity and robustness of the door guidance systems of PEDs is also known to be a contributor to the increased reliability compared to PSGs.
PEDs provide much greater integrity of separation of the platform and track environment. No track intrusions have been recorded from platforms fitted with PEDs on the Jubilee line. 1.7m high PSGs have not been proven to stop all track intrusion on other metros. The lower height also leads to a greater number of false alarms where secondary detection is deployed to mitigate the risk of entrapment on curved platforms. In addition, it is comparatively easier for customers to drop rubbish over the top of a PSG which can have a negative impact on service reliability."
Also the issue of installing the PEDS is becoming less of a problem as the passenger safety gates were only developed to retrofit onto existing platforms rather than new builds but they are able to transport PEDS on low floor engineering stock through the curvy tunnels of the deep tube and manufactures will be racing soon to develop the ability to install and commission units in the 3 and a half hour slot that passenger service gates can be installed.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 10, 2016 17:07:50 GMT
Work has already been done on PEDs for the Victoria line. As stated previously there are problems with the limited size and the ability to support the weight near the platform edges. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the Central line given the serious gaps on the curves at Bank. Does this mean that the Victoria line will have PEDS or just some feasibility studies were carried out to look at the possibility of installing them? Do you have a source of information (not that I don't believe you) as I've looked for information regarding Victoria line PEDS before but didn't come up with anything.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 10, 2016 15:19:21 GMT
I am surprised at the vehemence of some opinion about PEDs and their potential use. We can't escape the fact that the tube is not set in aspic and it needs to adapt and to introduce step changes in technology that the railway supply industry have developed and made affordable. We also need to acknowledge that regulatory and passenger demands change over time (whether people here agree with them or not). LU cannot go into "la la la not listening" mode. It can't, given the financial and political climate, keep using expensive and increasingly outdated technology and working practices. I don't cope with change very well but I'm sufficiently aware to know that in many fields of endeavour it's unavoidable. Seemingly placing wall tiles over the lives of passengers seem a particularly perverse stance to take. In terms of the practicalties of conversion and rolling stock replacement all of this can be worked round and dealt with. The suppliers will want to work with a major client like LU to come up with feasible ways of implementing a complex set of changes for PEDs. This will also cover anything needed on the Jubilee line - offering a flexible, adaptable solution that improves the chances of gaining future work is what it will be about. I'd also expect the railway industry to be able to come up solutions that allow PEDs to cope with different rolling stock designs stopping at PED equipped platforms (there are obviously limits here). Some of Tokyo's subway lines have extensive interworking with JR and private main line routes with multiple different stock designs serving the same platforms. They must have found a way of coping with this across a wide range of technical areas. I'm not saying it's easy on the LU network but it's been / is being done elsewhere in the world and with places that have vast crowding issues. If you can install platform edge gates on the Yamanote line in Tokyo with 11 car trains then you can do it anywhere. That line carries more pass jnys in a day than the entire LU network. It will as you say definitely be in the interests of PED suppliers to engage with LUL as the whole of the Central and Waterloo and City lines as well as the Bakerloo Elephant & Castle - Kensal Green and the Piccadilly line apart from Rayners lane - Uxbridge will be fitted with PEDS as part of the NTFL programme. When that is complete it will then be approaching / at the time to start replacing the 1995/6 with new trains and its likely that there will be a requirement then to introduce PEDS as there has been with the NTFL and only time will tell how long it will be until they begin to roll them out on the SSR and Victoria lines.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 22:29:59 GMT
TfL already run driverless trains on the DLR- - with not a PED in sight. I think that PEDs are a necessity for UTO though, which must be a worrying prospect if they are looking at them. They are looking at the prospect of UTO in the future as the NTFL programme is to set the basis for the future of the tube and full automation is considered vital. The only sections where they aren't planning to fully run UTO (- unattended train operation) on the Bakerloo Line and the Piccadilly line between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge. The Piccadilly cant run driverless alongside the Metropolitan line and the Bakerloo wont seemingly at all with the current level of ATO seen on the Victoria line implemented.
PEDS are being planned on all platforms apart from the Bakerloo between Kensal Green - Harrow and Wealdstone and the Piccadilly between Rayners Lane - Uxbridge. Its also worth mentioning that Ealing Common wont be an issue as there are plans for the Piccadilly to serve Ealing Broadway allowing the District to concentrate on its Richmond and Wimbledon branches. It looks like above ground stations are to see PEDS as:
The Piccadilly line will have PEDs and be capable of fully-automatic operation (except between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge), the Bakerloo line won't have PEDS between Kensal Green and Harrow & Wealdstone suggesting they will be fitted on the rest of the line. On the Central and Waterloo and City lines that will feature full automation PEDS will be fitted to "provide a safer and more modern space for customers who are waiting for their trains, much like that provided on the underground stations on the Jubilee line extension."
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 17:55:55 GMT
Also are they just planning to fit PEDS on the underground stations and not on stations like Stratford Central line? If we follow the JLE as an example, above ground stations don't feature PEDs. Not sure if this has to do with air circulation on the platforms since they won't have air-con or the fact that if someone is on the tracks there is significantly more places for them to flee to. If PEDS were added to above ground stations, the passenger area would probably need to be completely enclosed. Yes, I agree it makes stations look less appealing. The Leslie Green style Platforms would certainly loose a lot of it's detail in the upgrade and a lot of the tiling would be hidden. I for one thing that the JLE Stations are absolutely crude and soulless. It's gloomy cold and depressing and you can't see the trains. IMO the best way to keep some of the character of old stations would be to have the PEDS not be metal, but to draw from one of the colors of the heritage tiles at the platform and colors the PED frames to match When the 1996 stock are taken out of service its almost certain they will replace the PEDS as well as they will be unreliable and approaching the end of their usable life with the 96's. Wouldn't the doors themselves and windows an frames be fine, it'd be some of the motors and electrics that would need to be repaired? May I also point out, many platforms are shared between both Tube-Gauge and Sub-Surface-Gauge trains so PED's will be pointless at some stations. Also, no, the Piccadilly and District can't switch places at Rayners Lane and Ealing Broadway. You'll have too many of one type of train on the Picadilly and not enough S's to cover the District to Uxbridge. More can be ordered which is expensive.If we follow the JLE as an example, above ground stations don't feature PEDs. That would mean none of the Uxbridge branch would have PEDs. Also any of the district/piccadilly line above ground stations would also probably not receive PEDs based on that model. I'm not sure if I've missed something that mentioned above ground stations. The only reason the JLE has PEDS is so they didn't have to chamfer the ends of the running tunnels and so they didn't have to provide draught relief shafts. The NTFL programme is different though as the trains eventually will be run without drivers so I just wondered if there were plans to install PEDS on above ground stations as risk mitigation will be required against one unders on all stations.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 17:21:19 GMT
Well if London Underground ever want to run trains without drivers they will need to have installed PEDS so it will be likely high up on the list of things for them to implement as part of the NTFL programme. Also are they just planning to fit PEDS on the underground stations and not on stations like Stratford Central line?
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 14:18:00 GMT
Does anyone else think that PED's completely change the whole character of The Underground? If they save lives, it would be completely wrong to oppose them, but I find that despite (since I first encountered it) two complete changes of stock, and many changes to stations, 'The Underground' still retains the main core of its personality. Whenever I use the JL and am confronted by PED's, it just does not seem like The underground to me. It will definitely change the character of the underground. I think it will make the tube look smarter and will certainly give large parts of the network an heir of sophistication and swankiness (actual word) that the JLE particularly stations like Westminster have. PEDS also have an effect beyond how the actually look, personally I feel safer on JLE platforms practically at peak times as you know their isn't any danger of falling on the tack or someone bumping into you.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 12:06:16 GMT
I think it's most likely that they will have to remove the PEDS on the Jubilee Line as the 1996 stock begin to be withdrawn and the new trains are introduced. This is because it would be madness to limit the design of the trains that will have a service life of 40/50 years down to the design of the PEDS that are currently in service. When the 1996 stock start getting replaced probably not long after the NTFL programme has been completed sometime in the late 2030's early 2040's the PEDS will likely be needing complete replacement also. The reason that new Jubilee line trains will almost certainly copy the design of the NTFL trains is because there is a strong desire to have walk through carriages and to increase capacity while generally maintaining the same length of trains. This is only possible by introducing NTFL style trains.
There will always be debate as to just how LUL will introduce new Jubilee line trains whilst simultaneously continuing to run the 1996 stock until they are all withdrawn. The only way I can see that they can feasibility do this is to remove the PEDS and have trains on the extension enter and leave platforms at a slower rate as to reduce droughts as the reason that PEDS were installed was because they saved money by not having to provide draught relief shafts. After the 1996 stock have been withdrawn they would then have to progressively deploy PEDS in the same way as they are planning to on the NTFL.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 9, 2016 11:11:07 GMT
The NTFL feasibility report states "Platform Edge Doors - the NTfL Feasibility Study evaluated both full height Platform Edge Doors (PEDs) as installed on parts of the Jubilee line, and half height Passenger Safety Gates (PSGs) as installed on Paris Line 1, and concluded that full-height PEDs offer the best solution for NTfL". The NTFL video states that PEDS already introduced on the Jubilee line will be progressively deployed strongly suggesting they will be the full height variety.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 8, 2016 22:52:23 GMT
PED's were introduced with the plan of a DTO network which are both ludicrous. It was and hopefully remains a vision in my view. A feasibility report was conducted which highlighted the technical aspects of implementing PED's and challenges in this scheme. Furthermore, PED's: ..Can't be installed before preparations to infrastructure are in place and that the appropriate equipment is available (engineering stock) which both cost. ..Require maintenance and eventual replacement to accommodate the replacement of future rolling stock. ..Are a risk to safety for passengers boarding in crowded situations. ..Reduce flexibility in the event of an emergency whereby access to track would be required or if a train in a tunnel or partially on the platform had to be evacuated. ...all in all whilst defacing historic platforms and making more roles redundant on LU. I'm also very aware of the befits of PED's like remedying overcrowding problems (short-term), and preventing 'one unders' from occuring (nearly). However, the cons outweigh the pros from my point of view. In what ways do PEDS risk passenger safety I thought they solved all the safety problems. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 8, 2016 21:43:47 GMT
In the New Tube for London mock up videos, it shows stations being retrofitted with Platform Edge Doors after the new rolling stock is introduced with only double doors. Is it likely the Victoria Line will receive Platform Edge Doors within the lifetime of the 2009 Stock's lifetime or will be goal be that the next Vicc stock will match NTFL specs and have Platform Doors to accommodate that? With the NTFL design, would we expect the Jubille Line to always have stock matching the current 1996's or would the JLE stations have their PEDs changed for new trains in the future to match the NTFL vision? I'm not asking in terms of hypothetical feasibility, but actual plans for new Platform Doors/expectations from those who know a bit more about the future of Platform Doors than me. Thanks For the Victoria Line to have PEDS will require a business case for them but as the trains have only been in service for 7 out of their likely 50 year operation it wouldn't be ridiculous to consider their provision in a few years time. As the line gets used by ever increasing numbers of people and its already substandard width platforms get busier its likely there will soon be calls for PEDS.
Its likely that the last trains to ever be build for LUL that have individual cars will be the 2009 stock. When the 1996 stock are taken out of service its almost certain they will replace the PEDS as well as they will be unreliable and approaching the end of their usable life with the 96's. There are so many advantages of having the NTFL style train as there are more individual cars that result in them being able to corner faster and will be lighter as they will have less bogies. They also have space for air cooling and have more space for passengers as they will be totally walk through.
When the 1996 stock became 7 cars long they had to I believe only modify the software of the PEDS to get them to open all doors rather than just 6 cars worth of doors. I don't believe they had to physically change them.
|
|
|
Post by will on Jul 5, 2016 8:21:01 GMT
Try to avoid the Central line is my advice as it's far too hot to stand on a platform for a few minutes never mind hours.
|
|