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Post by jamesb on Oct 13, 2007 12:49:53 GMT
I've been on a placement in Southend this week, and using the local busses made me realise how very very convenient London buses are.
The local busses I had to catch came every 20-30 minutes. There was a que of people at each stop to buy there ticket, which cost me £1.70 for a single to get from Southend Central to my destination. There was just one set of doors at the front of the bus, and the buses were old (but perfectly good). The drivers were all very friendly.
The Oyster system in London has been a revolution IMO, and the frequency and modern design of the buses make them very easy to use.
I came home thinking how good the buses in London are... Cos they are pretty good, compared to other places!
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2007 15:02:09 GMT
To be honest, I can not understand how that could have happen, given that MAL is a LF bus, with the clearance almost certainly less than that of the old Ikarus with its almost metre-high floor. Second hand stories aren't good examples and I can't back it up, so I apologize. In general, my understanding of how something like that could happen is that if the bus is turning a tight corner, or stopped on a tight corner, the back end of the bus is pointing in a slightly different direction to the front end of the bus. So anyone falling on the road in front of the back end/wheels is liable to get run over when the bus continues on its journey and straightens out, e.g. a drunk person falling against the gray plastic bit where the two ends are stuck together. I admit its a rare event but that is my understanding of what happened in the example I described. True, but bendy busses haven't existed for 30 years, They have - please remember that just because they're relatively new in London, doesn't mean they're new elsewhere. We had them in the late 1970s. Apologies - I should have phrased that better and researched it more throughly! Maybe the issue is the streets of London, rather then the busses themselves, then. But it is fair to say that bendy buses haven't existed on the congested streets of Central London for 30 years?
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2007 12:20:41 GMT
I've also noticed that people now sometimes board the rear doors of double decker busses. To a tourist or visitor to London who isn't familiar with how the system works, it isn't unreasonable to think that if you can get on any door on a bendy bus that you can do the same on others.
In Camden I've seen drivers getting incredibly frustrated when people board the rear of the bus en-mass.
I've also seen bendy bus drivers reluctant to open the front set of doors on their busses to let passengers off at busy stops, because they have no way to stop tens of passengers cramming into the bus when they are letting someone off. Conductors on bendy buses are a really good idea, i'm surprised they haven't been more strongly encouraged.
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2007 12:04:20 GMT
Conductors on bendy busses would solve nearly every issue people complain about.
They could: Check everyone has a ticket. Act as a deterrent to trouble making kids doing whatever they want, or radio for assistance if they are out of their depth. Communicate with the driver in any emergency. Act as an extra pair of eyes to watch for accidents towards the back of the bus. Increase peoples perceptions of security. Shout mind the doors and encourage people not to board the bus when the doors just keep opening continuously when people are cramming into the bus when they just don't fit. Talk to tourists and make them feel more welcome, and offer travel advice.
True, they wouldn't be able to move anywhere when the busses are completely packed, but that's only some of the time, and they could still do some things.
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2007 11:03:15 GMT
True, but bendy busses haven't existed for 30 years, and there haven't been incidents of people getting dragged under a bus in London for a mile before the driver realized, either... On normal double decker's they wouldn't be useful, I meant on bendy buses in particular... Like an emergency stop signal somebody could press outside the bus, to ring a bell the driver could hear. I say this based on my friend's experience at King's Cross, where he described somebody became trapped under a bendy bus, and the driver didn't realize the person was caught - he had started to pull off despite people waving their arms and shouting - he just didn't see them until it was too late. Do you think passenger emergency alarm handles would be useful (both on the outside and inside of the bus)? We live without them for the latest 30+ years, and I've never seen a situation where they would have been useful, unlike intercom in the Metro trains.
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2007 10:23:14 GMT
It's a terrible thing that happened in the latest incident.
One of the problems is the sheer length of the bus. It is very difficult to communicate with the driver in a packed bus if you are at the back.
Do you think passenger emergency alarm handles would be useful (both on the outside and inside of the bus)? They would be very susceptible to misuse and probably wouldn't have made any difference in this incident, but they would at least allow a fast way to signal to the driver to stop immediately. If I saw a cyclist get clipped by the bus and I was at the back, I don't think the driver would hear me shouting to stop if he missed it.
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Post by jamesb on Feb 25, 2007 13:17:53 GMT
I must say that I am (at last) impressed with the press handling of the event, and with all the measured comments by NR, BTP, even Richard Branson himself. No blame handed out: so much better than previously. All that is except that despicable dinosaur Bob Crow who is once again trying to stir the brown stuff, both on safety AND renationalisation this time. I just wish he would listen to those round him who keep telling him he is dragging his union into disrepute and making them look stupid at the same time. I will stop there before it turns into a rant but I'm sure the family of the dead woman were over the moon to hear Bro. Crow's analysis. A person has died, and several were seriously injured, so this was a terrible event. Without taking away from the seriousness of what happened, a lot of things weren't as bad as they could have been. Richard Branson's comments were measured because he was able to say "(our) trains are built like tanks, the lights remained on"..., the BTP were measured because they did a very good job, and their efforts appeared to go smoothly, quoting (?500) people involved at the site during/immediately after the accident... I think the press were a bit confused about quite what to say in response to these things... Everybody involved had something positive to say about a very negative situation. The whole measured response was owed to the performance of the rolling stock in this incident. I'm sure it wouldn't have been as measured if circumstances had been different. I think Bob Crow is just Bob Crow and there isn't much more to say!
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Post by jamesb on Mar 11, 2008 19:12:44 GMT
I don't doubt that it is the least used station, but I wonder when the TFL figures were taken.
Since Roding Valley was moved into zone 4, subjectively it's use in the rush hours seems to have increased. In the morning, people catch specific trains. This is reflected in the increased number of cars parked (for free) along Station Way, which annoyed the local shopkeepers and residents such as my father!
Also, if the figures are collected using the Oyster card system, since there are no ticket gates installed, it is possible for people not to touch in/out. I have left the station in rush hour and only some people touch in - e.g. if they have a travelcard, or they connect with services at Stratford (and are evading the fare from RV-Stratford). The lack of gates at Roding Valley is a weakness in the system - I have been stopped only about 3 times at the station in my entire life.
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Post by jamesb on Oct 14, 2007 17:48:27 GMT
Help points are quite good at unstaffed stations (if they work) - at least you would be able to get through to the BTP if you needed.
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Post by jamesb on Sept 28, 2007 9:44:39 GMT
It would take far too long to get to Stansted on the Central Line, surely?
The line is already the longest line from West Rus to Epping. Extending it any further would just make the journey time unacceptable (or would it?).
Any fast link overground train from Epping to Stansted wouldn't be too convenient because passengers would have to travel from Central London to Epping and then change, and it would be faster to just get the Stansted Express from Liverpool Street?
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Post by jamesb on Sept 28, 2007 9:23:33 GMT
I dread to think what state the '92 stock would be in by the time it reached Stansted. I imagine bits of it would be alongside the M11 - there would be a set of bogies rolling into the platforms with some poor tourists clinging onto them with their suitcases! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by jamesb on Sept 15, 2007 14:26:21 GMT
Just found some details on this site: www.workersliberty.org/node/9184Problems with split pins have occured before on other Metronet lines, I understand, could this be connected? What an unfortunate day that turned out to be!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 15, 2007 7:29:50 GMT
Maybe is is reassuring that, for once, there hasn't been leaks and speculation. I was thinking yesterday that everybody has remained very professional about the incident. And we do not yet know the technical details of what happened, which is how it should be. It might be that there isn't much to report, apart from a defective train. A complete media circus would be very entertaining for us, but probably wouldn't help the situation very much. It is strange how everybody has been so tight-lipped about it, though!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 13, 2007 15:39:17 GMT
Well presumably it is getting viewed as a 'one off' exceptional event and safety checks have been carried out just in case?
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 23:14:21 GMT
During the Chancery Lane suspension, the replacement bus which took me from Roding Valley to Blackhorse Road was very quick, that would be a good idea to link them up - it would make getting into Euston very fast indeed. I wonder did that idea ever get considered? If only the Victoria Line met up with the east end of the Central... It wouldn't be a major project to extend it from Walthamstow to South Woodford, but the Victoria line can't handle any more traffic as it is!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:58:19 GMT
I know I wasn't trying to provoke you to reveal (well, maybe a bit!) just genuinely curious! They could concrete over all the Central Line and turn it into a bicycle way. It would remove lots of cyclists from the streets of London, and it would be cheap, and it would be environmentally friendly, and it would be healthy. Perfect!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:50:37 GMT
I am just wondering if the problem is a computer software type of issue, connected to the ATO system and the way the train picks up codes etc. or a more 'hardware' type of problem. I suppose all those details they are still investigating.
Whatever it was, it can't have been * that * bad because trains continued to run, and are running now according to the TfL website. Unless they are all been driven in restricted manual or with speed limits, but this wouldn't get anyone anywhere very quickly!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:39:46 GMT
The straw that broke the camels back... Indeed, but on the other hand, think of all the experience and problem solving skills you have acquired. You'd be scouted to drive trains all over the world with the experience you get from the '92 stock!
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:36:00 GMT
Probably came out of Hainault round the Chigwell loop [hence its closure] and into service that way! There aren't that many through trains in the morning, are there? I can always catch one just after 0735 or around 0800 from RV. I'm sorry for you, as a Top on the Central Line - such unreliable trains are a hastle, but safety issues, if this is one, must be unsettling.
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:25:22 GMT
Oh dear, the beloved '92 stock. I feel quite attached to it for some reason! Maybe it's because I spend every day around sick people! Sick trains, sick people - same thing ;D ;D
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:20:10 GMT
Is it possible that one train got a little too friendly with the train in front?? And could the wide suspension be related to a defective train possibly damaging the track over that distance, or because it is possible a bit of the train fell off somewhere along the way?
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Post by jamesb on Sept 12, 2007 22:06:05 GMT
Traveling to and from Leicester Square, I heard a few different announcements referring to the reason for the Central Line suspension. - A defective train at Holland Park. - For safety reasons. - Due to the earlier incident at Holland Park. - Due to technical difficulties.
And the TfL information line talked about 'the earlier incident at Holland Park'.
I hadn't heard about anything until hearing all these different announcements - I suppose they are all right, but I became very curious to find out what actually happened!
Has anyone actually officially said if the problem was with the train, or the signaling system?
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Post by jamesb on Sept 4, 2007 18:28:15 GMT
How long are the 'tennis bats' supposed to be held up? Is it until the last carriage is clear of the platform? The bats seem good to say 'close the doors' but I've seen them held in all sorts of positions and very rarely held up until the train has left the platform. Journey time, West Rui - Epping is now around 82 - 86 minutes. SATS dispatch - moot point... when the platforms are packed, when looking at the in-cab monitors, you sometimes have to struggle to see the tennis bat...
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Post by jamesb on Sept 1, 2007 18:36:33 GMT
At Roding Valley, where my folks live, it would be very useful to have TfL departure boards. I live a 3 minutes walk from the station, and the trains aren't that frequent... I can't quite understand how the TfL site departure boards are helpful in most situations. If I'm somewhere in Central London on a computer, and I see a train in 2 minutes is going to Brixton from Warren Street, that isn't very helpful since it takes twice that time to get onto the platform from wherever I am, and the trains run very frequently anyway? ? Do people actually use them?
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Seats
Aug 10, 2007 7:22:01 GMT
Post by jamesb on Aug 10, 2007 7:22:01 GMT
I also agree that the seats are a bit low down. But wasn't the general idea to fit more people into the carriages, and to get them on and off as quickly as possible? In the rush hour, the majority of people are standing up anyway. Total seating capacity for an eight car train = 272 Total standing capacity for an eight car train = 1380
So maybe during the design of them, they were thinking more about the standing people?
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Post by jamesb on Jul 6, 2007 21:21:13 GMT
It is interesting to read from the report that 'most of the injuries occurred during the evacuation of the passengers along the tunnel'.
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Post by jamesb on Jul 6, 2007 12:23:48 GMT
With the length of time taken to detrain a train in a tunnel (or rather the speed at which it is initiated), isn't the decision dictated by the particular set of circumstances surrounding each individual incident? The train operator (alone and in his cab in the tunnel) is crucial in making an initial assessment and decision, another reason why s/he should be paid well, IMO. I imagine risk assessments are made with every decision and they depend on lots of factors - ultimately leading to ensuring the passengers are in the safest place - ranging from an immediate emergency detrainment to other well established procedures and chains of command. The train operator's communication of his initial decision and reasoning to his passengers is probably just as important as the decision itself: news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/november/23/newsid_3227000/3227456.stm
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Post by jamesb on Jul 5, 2007 17:10:37 GMT
As a general point, I think this highlights the huge responsibility a train operator has, and why they should be paid well.
To suddenly be responsible for 600 odd people in the moments after an incident like this must be very stressful to say the least -thankfully it is a very rare event.
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Post by jamesb on Jul 5, 2007 12:05:19 GMT
I wonder what caused the Derailment at Mile End today? Todays news stated that six cars were derailed. Isn't there a set of cross-over points between Mile End and Bethnal Green?
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Post by jamesb on Jun 30, 2007 18:29:37 GMT
completly forgetting about this thread, i got on the central line at roding valley today, sat down, and got a big drip right on the middle of my forehead! grrrrrrrrrrr ;D
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