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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 17:54:41 GMT
An appeal really...
To the lady train operator/learner driver... whoever it is who has recently been making a career out of making relentless "cheery/cheeky/bubbly" announcements over the train's PA on evening peak Pic trains - at what seems like at EVERY station and EVERY red signal.
Please STOP, or at the very least reduce the frequency and "cheeky London/cockney gal" tone of your announcements.
Examples...;
"And yes here were are ladies and gentlemen at good 'ole green park... those of you who have had enough of picking up bargains in the sales and who are Victoria or Jubilee Line passengers you should change here for the Victoria and Jubilee lines ladies and gentlemen..."
and similarly... you don't need to make an announcement every time the train is stopped at a red for more than about 15 seconds...
"Please bear with me ladies and gentlemen and we are stopped at a good 'ole red signal whist we wait for the trains in front to move, so please bear with me and we should be on the move very shortly ladies and gentlemen"...
"Sorry about this ladies and gentlemen, we are just being held here in the station to let the traffic jam in front of us move out of the way and we should be on the move very soon ladies and gentlemen..I expect we will be on our way very soon....and yes indeed the signal has now turned green so mind the doors ladies and gentlemen and we can get going ladies and gentlemen..."
etc
These types of announcements are probably just about fine for the first 10 seconds...but when you are traveling almost the entire length of the line in the evening after a hard day at work they can be enough to drive one to borderline insanity... I find that one can learn to teach one's brain to 'tune out' the automated (DVA?) announcements, but the "cheeky chappie" (don't know what else to call it) style is just too much.... really! [and in any case we don't need more announcements on the tube - we really don't].
Please don't see this as a personal attack. It is not intended as such! Just a request that if you really have to make announcements please just keep them to the absolute minimum and then simple, to the point and factual and without the banter and music-hall style.
Whilst the occasional odd or eccentric announcement from the train op usually brings a smile to peoples' faces, repeated OTT announcing just annoys regular commuters...(if you are doing it to try and cheer up the punters, trust me, it isn't working!) who probably just want to switch off after a hard day at work, and I suspect it confuses the hell out of tourists and non-regular tube users who have a difficult enough time negotiating the system as it is.
I promise you that I am not some kind of misery guts, just a regular commuter who is actually quite happy traveling on the pic. However, I have been on your train a few times now... and after a while its got to me so much that I have not been able to take it, and have got off and waited for the next one just to get some peace & quiet!
The end.
Thank you.
James
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 8, 2009 18:21:38 GMT
I do think there is a thread somewhere about this...[thinks of Colin]
I agree with you James, both as a frequent traveller and a member of staff. Nothing wrong with some lighthearted stuff, but this particularly Lady doesnt give it a rest, constantly yapping away. Good in principle, but goes OTT. I havent got a problem with whats been said, just the frequency of it.
Its not very professional in my opinion, and I think one of the DMTs should take her to one side and have a quiet word. After a long day at work, the only sounds I want to hear are of the train itself, the DVA is ok, miles better than the Northern [Another topic!]
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 18:58:43 GMT
and similarly... you don't need to make an announcement every time the train is stopped at a red for more than about 15 seconds... The only bit I'll argue is this - because we are required to make an announcement within 30 seconds of stopping at a red signal. Not after, *within* - and yes, it is monitored for compliance. (and no, it's not me!) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 19:04:52 GMT
mcjlf1, if you put your comments in an email to LU (and others do likewise) then we might just get rid of the requirement to make a PA within 30 seconds.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 8, 2009 19:47:05 GMT
And it's cos of the bloomin 30 second rule that you now hear message 51 on D stocks all the time...... "Ladies and Gentlemen. We are being held at a Red signal and we should be moving shortly." It winds me up and I'm the one setting it up!  ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 8, 2009 20:06:29 GMT
I think that LUL is simply towing the line, we live in the nanny state these days where no-one has to look out for him/herself any more as the government does it for everyone and forces companies and businesses to follow suit. This policy has seen off common sense in so many ways over the last decade but it's here to stay methinks so my best suggestion is to carry a set of ear plugs!
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 8, 2009 20:09:23 GMT
What is the point of announcing that the train is at a red signal? If a train stops between stations, then it nearly always is because of a red signal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 20:14:38 GMT
What is the point of announcing that the train is at a red signal? If a train stops between stations, then it nearly always is because of a red signal. I guess it's to reassure passengers that the train hasn't broken down and the driver hasn't fallen unconscious. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 21:06:23 GMT
I am glad that there are at least a few people who seem to agree with me...
I am however not sure how far writing to LUL will get in this particular case. I think that trying to stop the tide of unnecessary announcements (never mind this particular issue) on the tube in this HSE mad world is probably not worth even trying unfortunately.
If anybody knows the lady in question, perhaps they could have a word, or point her to read this forum...?
James
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 22:18:07 GMT
There was a Guard on the Waterloo to Weymouth line years ago who, when they got Public Address systems on the line, used to wax lyrical for ages! A typical example that I endured once was an announcement that began as the train left Clapham Junction going south. He began his inane prattle about the stops, historical significance of the stops, the speeds that were to be reached, the gradients, curves and anything else that filled his otherwise empty head. The announcement finished at West Byfleet! He than began something similar on leaving Woking! A collegue who worked in the Waterloo South Side training school as a Guards instructor taped him and used it as an example of what not to do an a P.A........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 22:45:20 GMT
I have nothing wrong with the 30 second PA rule, think it is a very good idea. As a passenger I would like to know whether we're in for a long delay or not, as that enables me to plan the rest of my journey properly.
Also you have to remember at least 30% of the travelling public are totally stupid and at a 30 second delay will actually think some nasty foreigners have bombed a train, or will parrot what they read in the Express about 'leaves on the line', and calming them is important.
As for the talkative driver, she's stuck in a box in a tunnel for 8 hours a day and if being chatty on the PA is her way of dealing with it then so be it. I've worked in jobs where I didn't see or speak to anyone for a whole shift and it can be grim at times.
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Post by sarah607 on Jan 8, 2009 22:48:58 GMT
is this the lady who says northern line the train now approching is to morden please stand back from the platform edge.
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Post by londonstuff on Jan 8, 2009 23:24:21 GMT
I've heard this lady on the Picc before now and I really like her! She sounds like she's enjoying herself, which is nice to hear.
Not stopping anyone else from hating it, but I hope she doesn't get told 'officially' not to!
There's something similar on the District, where a male driver uses the PA virtually every stop that 'seats are for sitting on. Please do not put your feet on the seats, remember, do not put your feet on the seats.'
Good on him!
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Post by 21146 on Jan 9, 2009 1:31:41 GMT
An appeal really... To the lady train operator/learner driver... whoever it is who has recently been making a career out of making relentless "cheery/cheeky/bubbly" announcements over the train's PA on evening peak Pic trains - at what seems like at EVERY station and EVERY red signal. Please STOP, or at the very least reduce the frequency and "cheeky London/cockney gal" tone of your announcements. Examples...; "And yes here were are ladies and gentlemen at good 'ole green park... those of you who have had enough of picking up bargains in the sales and who are Victoria or Jubilee Line passengers you should change here for the Victoria and Jubilee lines ladies and gentlemen..." and similarly... you don't need to make an announcement every time the train is stopped at a red for more than about 15 seconds... "Please bear with me ladies and gentlemen and we are stopped at a good 'ole red signal whist we wait for the trains in front to move, so please bear with me and we should be on the move very shortly ladies and gentlemen"... "Sorry about this ladies and gentlemen, we are just being held here in the station to let the traffic jam in front of us move out of the way and we should be on the move very soon ladies and gentlemen..I expect we will be on our way very soon....and yes indeed the signal has now turned green so mind the doors ladies and gentlemen and we can get going ladies and gentlemen..." etc These types of announcements are probably just about fine for the first 10 seconds...but when you are traveling almost the entire length of the line in the evening after a hard day at work they can be enough to drive one to borderline insanity... I find that one can learn to teach one's brain to 'tune out' the automated (DVA?) announcements, but the "cheeky chappie" (don't know what else to call it) style is just too much.... really! [and in any case we don't need more announcements on the tube - we really don't]. Please don't see this as a personal attack. It is not intended as such! Just a request that if you really have to make announcements please just keep them to the absolute minimum and then simple, to the point and factual and without the banter and music-hall style. Whilst the occasional odd or eccentric announcement from the train op usually brings a smile to peoples' faces, repeated OTT announcing just annoys regular commuters...(if you are doing it to try and cheer up the punters, trust me, it isn't working!) who probably just want to switch off after a hard day at work, and I suspect it confuses the hell out of tourists and non-regular tube users who have a difficult enough time negotiating the system as it is. I promise you that I am not some kind of misery guts, just a regular commuter who is actually quite happy traveling on the pic. However, I have been on your train a few times now... and after a while its got to me so much that I have not been able to take it, and have got off and waited for the next one just to get some peace & quiet! The end. Thank you. James Most people are sick of these attention-seeker wannabes who want to be on The Tube, Big Brother, X Factor etc and who think their "schtik" is amusing. |
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Post by 21146 on Jan 9, 2009 1:46:09 GMT
Automated: "This train is being held at a red signal, we hope to be moving shortly" Yes, but WHY? Signal failure? Defective train? Person ill? One under? Is the train actually scheduled to be held between stations by the timetable for junction working?
Are people interested in this patronising rubbish?
As a former Motorman, and current passenger (not 'customer'), please tell me 'live' if there's a problem ahead. DVA stuff reeks of intelligence insulting"Your train is being being held in a queue - your journey will be completed when a platform/station/signal operator becomes available - you are currrently train *12* in the queue.
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Post by 21146 on Jan 9, 2009 1:47:38 GMT
An appeal really... To the lady train operator/learner driver... whoever it is who has recently been making a career out of making relentless "cheery/cheeky/bubbly" announcements over the train's PA on evening peak Pic trains - at what seems like at EVERY station and EVERY red signal. Please STOP, or at the very least reduce the frequency and "cheeky London/cockney gal" tone of your announcements. Examples...; "And yes here were are ladies and gentlemen at good 'ole green park... those of you who have had enough of picking up bargains in the sales and who are Victoria or Jubilee Line passengers you should change here for the Victoria and Jubilee lines ladies and gentlemen..." and similarly... you don't need to make an announcement every time the train is stopped at a red for more than about 15 seconds... "Please bear with me ladies and gentlemen and we are stopped at a good 'ole red signal whist we wait for the trains in front to move, so please bear with me and we should be on the move very shortly ladies and gentlemen"... "Sorry about this ladies and gentlemen, we are just being held here in the station to let the traffic jam in front of us move out of the way and we should be on the move very soon ladies and gentlemen..I expect we will be on our way very soon....and yes indeed the signal has now turned green so mind the doors ladies and gentlemen and we can get going ladies and gentlemen..." etc These types of announcements are probably just about fine for the first 10 seconds...but when you are traveling almost the entire length of the line in the evening after a hard day at work they can be enough to drive one to borderline insanity... I find that one can learn to teach one's brain to 'tune out' the automated (DVA?) announcements, but the "cheeky chappie" (don't know what else to call it) style is just too much.... really! [and in any case we don't need more announcements on the tube - we really don't]. Please don't see this as a personal attack. It is not intended as such! Just a request that if you really have to make announcements please just keep them to the absolute minimum and then simple, to the point and factual and without the banter and music-hall style. Whilst the occasional odd or eccentric announcement from the train op usually brings a smile to peoples' faces, repeated OTT announcing just annoys regular commuters...(if you are doing it to try and cheer up the punters, trust me, it isn't working!) who probably just want to switch off after a hard day at work, and I suspect it confuses the hell out of tourists and non-regular tube users who have a difficult enough time negotiating the system as it is. I promise you that I am not some kind of misery guts, just a regular commuter who is actually quite happy traveling on the pic. However, I have been on your train a few times now... and after a while its got to me so much that I have not been able to take it, and have got off and waited for the next one just to get some peace & quiet! The end. Thank you. James Most people are sick of these attention-seeker wannabes who want to be on The Tube, Big Brother, X Factor etc and who think their "schtik" is amusing. |
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Post by 21146 on Jan 9, 2009 1:50:36 GMT
How about replying by using the passenger alarm 'talk back' facility to reply to her to say "thanks but no thanks". Yes the T/Op will have to reset it but at least the alleged "£1000" fine (not levied for 20 years) won't be applied.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 5:56:41 GMT
Automated: "This train is being held at a red signal, we hope to be moving shortly" Yes, but WHY? Signal failure? Defective train? Person ill? One under? Is the train actually scheduled to be held between stations by the timetable for junction working? After 30 seconds of being held, the driver may well not know why unless there has been a general announcement on the radio. A train is never scheduled to be held between stations to my knowledge. A driver can make an educated guess based on where they are (ie, if I'm being held at a home signal, it's most likely due to a train in the platform ahead, if I'm being held on the approach to Oakwood westbound, there's probably a train coming out of depot - as drivers we know roughly what each signal protects and can extrapolate from there) but it could also turn out that the signal has just failed on them (or on the train in advance), or that an incident has just kicked off in front. The official guidelines are something like: initial announcement after 30 seconds. After 2 minutes, start trying to find the cause. After three minutes, another PA, hopefully by now with a reason but if not, stating that you're trying to find out why. I normally phrase mine as something like this: "We are just being held at a red signal, probably just due to a train in the platform ahead of us, and we should be on the move shortly." With an occasional addition of something like "I'll let you know if I hear anything further." If a reason *has* been given on the radio then obviously that can (and ideally should) be given out immediately instead of the generic announcement. |
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Post by upfast on Jan 9, 2009 8:22:08 GMT
I have to say, that I like the 30 second PA, at least it shows that someone is there. More so if a reason and a guestimate is given.
Underground Girl, with the new WTT44, there is so much stand time that it is not unknown to have to wait outside a station for 4 or 5 minutes to wait for a vacant platform.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 14:45:57 GMT
Underground Girl, with the new WTT44, there is so much stand time that it is not unknown to have to wait outside a station for 4 or 5 minutes to wait for a vacant platform. Yes, but that's due to early running - not a timetabled wait. The original comment referred to time actually written into the timetable. (I think - bear in mind what time in the morning I posted!) |
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 9, 2009 14:59:35 GMT
I have given my opinions on this matter before. However, I will say that I can understand why staff whinge about passengers not listening to announcements - because there are so many, people start ignoring them because most are full of prattle!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 15:11:45 GMT
And then you get into a vicious cycle because if you can't get them to listen to it first time, you have to keep putting it out. I doubt there's ever going to be a solution.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 17:12:06 GMT
I have to say, that I like the 30 second PA, at least it shows that someone is there. How frequently have you encountered a situation where a driver has abandoned his/her train between stations, stranding you and your fellow passengers, that you need such reassurances? Of course theres someone there! I know the person to which I think the OP is referring here. She is a very genuine, friendly, customer focussed employee, who would think nothing of going out of her way to help passengers. She really is a very motivated individual, who only ever wants to do a good job. I can promise you, she really is not an attention seeking type. Unfortunately, though some people prefer a quiet journey, shes just taking L.U's message (the one they rammed into drivers several years ago) to make more use of the P.A, and putting it to use the way she thinks is best. She really is only doing her best. Maybe she just needs it explained to her from anothers point of view. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 17:21:41 GMT
I don't doubt that the person in question is all those things, and that is to be applauded in this day and age.
But...you can have too much of a good thing IMO. (i.e. well meaning yet OTT announcements).
If she herself wanted to contribute to the debate, I'd be interested to hear her view. In the mean time, I'd love her to shut-up a bit and focus on making only well constructed, "formal" and informative announcements, and only when absolutely necessary, rather than near continuous dialog of the type I gave examples of in my original post.
James
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Post by edwin on Jan 9, 2009 18:23:32 GMT
I'm sick of announcements full stop.
All we need are train announcements with a normal sounding voice (not some pseduo real robotic voice we have on all lines now) telling us briefly where the train terminates and what the next station is.
At rush hour there are currently annoying announcements on platforms and trains, which, IMO, just sound unproffessional and incredibly annoying. Like LU is so out of control that they can't close the doors when they have to.
Also, commuters don't need to know that "we're being held at a red signal", beside from being blindingly obvious, does not give the commuter any idea of how long we're going to be waiting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2009 20:34:05 GMT
I doubt there's ever going to be a solution. There is a simple solution that is extremely easy to implement - just don't make unnecessary announcements  For starters 'good service' status updates can be axed completely. And announcements of all disruptions should be localized - I don't need to hear about minor delay on Victoria line at Stratford! Automated station announcements should be fine tuned - no 'mind the gaps' at straight platforms, no announcements about 'all destinations' when line has only one destination, no mention that next station will be XXX when ALL trains always go to XXX invariably. And finally get rid of h&s dross about standing behind yellow line, heightened security, or slippery floors when it is raining. And voilà! Quiet stations and people will actually listen when announcement is made. |
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Post by North End on Jan 9, 2009 20:49:42 GMT
I doubt there's ever going to be a solution. And finally get rid of h&s dross about standing behind yellow line, heightened security, or slippery floors when it is raining. The only problem with that is that when the customer slips on an escalator because they were running for a train, their defence will be "well the escalator was wet, nobody told me it was raining". But I agree PAs should only be made when necessary and when there is an unusual problem - not the corporate "feel good" PA policy that LU's current abysmal management seem to think will make people think the system is World Class. |
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Post by North End on Jan 9, 2009 20:55:38 GMT
I have to say, that I like the 30 second PA, at least it shows that someone is there. More so if a reason and a guestimate is given. Underground Girl, with the new WTT44, there is so much stand time that it is not unknown to have to wait outside a station for 4 or 5 minutes to wait for a vacant platform. Trouble is that when there's actually a major problem, the driver will be busy dealing with the problem and be unable to make the PA. I'm all for keeping passengers informed where necessary, however signal stops on the Underground are a normal part of the system's operation, and something that all users should come to expect, particularly at certain locations. 2 minutes is a much more sensible yardstick for making a PA. The current rule just gives rise to misuse of the "this train is being held here to even out the gaps in the service" announcement. When the real reason is that the train is running early, there's a train crossing the junction ahead, or whatever. Also if you make a PA about a red signal, chances are it will clear just as you are making the announcement - this gives a far worse impression than if nothing had been said. |
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Post by Colin on Jan 10, 2009 2:51:57 GMT
I have to say, that I like the 30 second PA, at least it shows that someone is there. How frequently have you encountered a situation where a driver has abandoned his/her train between stations, stranding you and your fellow passengers, that you need such reassurances? Of course theres someone there! I would suspect that what upfast meant was it's reassuring that your driver hasn't collapsed or anything, that there is nothing wrong (out of the ordinary if you like) and is fully alert and aware of their passengers. Also, commuters don't need to know that "we're being held at a red signal", beside from being blindingly obvious, does not give the commuter any idea of how long we're going to be waiting. And that's all the commuter is interested in - getting from A to B in the quickest possible time and without being hindered by anyone at all. However there are other customer groups with different needs - they will often need more help than a commuter, and the information they require may well also be very different from the information a commuter wants. So whether commuters like it or not, there will be a complete mixture of messages broadcast in an attempt to satisfy the needs of the different customer groups. There is a simple solution that is extremely easy to implement - just don't make unnecessary announcements Again, it depends on what customer group you are - a familiar commuter will know that there's a gap at X,Y or Z station, but a one off visitor to London won't. For starters 'good service' status updates can be axed completely. And announcements of all disruptions should be localized - I don't need to hear about minor delay on Victoria line at Stratford! Whilst I agree that only disruptions should be put out, you may well be starting your journey at Stratford and your destination could be Walthamstow.........surely it'd be nice to have advance warning of potential hiccup to your travel plans? - and just cos you're not using the Victoria line, it doesn't mean no one else is either! And finally get rid of h&s dross about standing behind yellow line, heightened security, or slippery floors when it is raining. Again, it depends on your customer group - the commuter will be very aware of the above, but the one off visitor to London won't be. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 4:33:21 GMT
I just want to lament the fact that signallers are not allowed to use the radio system to communicate with drivers, in the past we have had great relations and working with station staff, when our new system was installed it extended our contact with drivers, this really helped develop understanding and goodwill. So what does this mean for the travelling public? well it means you get an a much more accuate picture conveyed to you and most probably in a speedy manner if we can
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;D ;D ;D ;D
