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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2008 11:18:10 GMT
Just to let you know there's a new Tube map coming.
Changes as follow -
*WLL redirected around shepherd's Bush
*Interchange between White City (Central) & Wood Lane (H&C) of 250m
*Shepherd's Bush (Central) and Overground of 100m
*Blackfriars red text "Undgerground station closed March 2009 until late 2011"
*Local Bus service shown (381/N381) from Bermondsey, calling at Rotherhithe, Canada Water and terimating (on the map) at Surrey Quays
Not sure about this one
*ELW is one straight line from Shoreditch to Wapping with red text around Shoreditch "Limited service. Check pubilcity for information"
There may be more changes but Ive only got the central London part of the map that is also on display on the S stock mock up in Euston.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2008 18:01:24 GMT
Can we see the map Mack ?
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Post by ruislip on Sept 28, 2008 4:02:34 GMT
Why is Blackfriars closing for 2 years? Is the main line station there also going to close?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2008 6:03:48 GMT
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Post by Dmitri on Sept 28, 2008 6:57:03 GMT
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Post by glasgowdriver on Sept 28, 2008 8:22:11 GMT
Why is Blackfriars closing for 2 years? Is the main line station there also going to close? its closing as part of the thameslink project same as farringdon they are modernising the station as part of the multi million pound upgrade scheme |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 28, 2008 9:33:07 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Sept 28, 2008 12:22:59 GMT
Wonder when they will show the ELL extensions as "under construction"?
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Post by cetacean on Sept 28, 2008 14:01:51 GMT
Why is Blackfriars closing for 2 years? Is the main line station there also going to close? The mainline station doesn't have to close because they're re-jigging the timetable to only need two through platforms and no terminus platforms, and they're going to try to keep that much available throughout the rebuild, which they can do by rebuilding one half at a time and swapping over which side is open for traffic and so on. But throughout this time the tube tracks will be boxed in by a protective roof and walls, and the tube station will be completely demolished apart from the platform edge, which will be inside the walls. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 11:38:46 GMT
Wonder when they will show the ELL extensions as "under construction"? Last January! |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 29, 2008 18:10:50 GMT
Wonder when they will show the ELL extensions as "under construction"? Last January! On what map - the ones on the TFL site definitely don't show the extensions. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 18:46:03 GMT
It was on the January and February pocket maps as well as the January & March version 1 poster map.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 21:18:14 GMT
I believe the extensions were removed because of the confusion that the mixture of replacement buses (Shoreditch - New Crosses), permanently closed line (Whitechapel - Shoreditch), new construction (Whitechapel - Dalston) and extension over existing lines (New Cross Gate - Croydon) was causing. There was a panel of tiny text about the southern extension explaining that National Rail services were already running, but that Oyster PAYG was not accepted. It made for a bit of a dog's breakfast overall, so is probably not going to re-appear until just before the whole line is opened.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 22:52:52 GMT
They've removed it awhile ago and the latest map doesn't show it. Im personally glad as it made the map look a mess.
They have how ever made the WLL look werid! I have got a few pictures and will be putting them online this week.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2008 16:56:14 GMT
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 2, 2008 17:53:28 GMT
They've actually found a way of making the Overground look even messier. Not a fan of merely 'fiddling' with the map.
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Post by max on Oct 2, 2008 17:58:03 GMT
Thanks,
No easy fix for the WLL, I tried a few things, but Willesden Junction-Paddington-Ladbroke Grove is just too cramped. Some slight improvements possible if the requirement for accurate relative spatial positioning of stations is relaxed, but I've always argued that that criterion is futile anyway. Too inconsistent for the user to make use of that information on the map.
Got to wonder just how bad its got to get before they decide to bin this design and start again.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 2, 2008 18:16:26 GMT
Hold on, Max, you designed the map that Mack has clips of? If so I really apologise for my tone; I just really think that a fresh start should be made. And, yes I'm a hypocrite; I endlessly tinker with the map.
My point is, kind of, that since Hutchinson's folly, the map has become something of a sacred cow. The Garbett design lasted pretty much till the early 90's, then from 1991 on it changed to this one. How many utterly distinct looks did Beck go through? Nothing wrong with change, even radical change, if its for the better.
Maybe this has something to do with the fact its now drawn and drafted on Graphics software instead of giant bits of paper?
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Post by max on Oct 2, 2008 18:33:18 GMT
Sorry, no, it was a double post, I meant thanks to Mack for posting the images, then I posted and found you had a post too. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I designed maps like this! I like to tinker too, which is how I found out there was no quick fix I personally cannot understand the LUL obstinacy, there certainly doesn't seem to be much graphic design expertise there. Its all run by clueless marketeers these days. Solution for the current map is to make it bigger, its madness having the map the same size as in 1933. Helps if you know what you are doing as well. privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/MJR_current.jpg |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 2, 2008 19:15:52 GMT
That larger map you link to Max looks so much better. I wont have time to do anything until next week, but would you mind if I experimented with a couple of ideas I've had on it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2008 19:34:20 GMT
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Post by edwin on Oct 2, 2008 20:22:03 GMT
No easy fix for the WLL, I tried a few things, but Willesden Junction-Paddington-Ladbroke Grove is just too cramped. If they gave Paddington one name (instead of a seperate name for the H&C and Bakerloo + Circle/District stations) and Edgware Road they could significantly de-clutter that area. They could join the stations with grey lines to signify an "out of ticket barriers" interchange. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2008 21:40:18 GMT
No easy fix for the WLL, I tried a few things, but Willesden Junction-Paddington-Ladbroke Grove is just too cramped. If they gave Paddington one name (instead of a seperate name for the H&C and Bakerloo + Circle/District stations) and Edgware Road they could significantly de-clutter that area. They could join the stations with grey lines to signify an "out of ticket barriers" interchange. Or even show the distances like they do with other outerchanges. |
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Post by max on Oct 3, 2008 9:10:52 GMT
Chris,
Glad you like it, feel free to experiment, but if you do decide to make your results available, could you just post the bits that you have altered, rather than a complete map.
Mack,
Some nice ideas on your map. There is a small industry of people out there who are not happy with what we have, and are trying to try their own ideas. Realistically though, although Overground can and should be ejected from the map (until they can promise a train every ten minutes on all routes, there shouldn't be anything less in Zones 1 to 3), DLR is probably here to stay.
Several people at TfL/LUL have seen this map and really like it. Some of these people board readers will have heard of, but TfL is such a large unwieldy organisation that this stuff just gets derailed by career can't-be-bothereds. Have you ever tried dealing with a TfL worker bee? Its like dealing with a service robot from Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy specially trained to work at a call centre.
If Henry Beck had presented his sketch to TfL it would never have been published, it would have just spent years bouncing round committee meetings!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 3, 2008 9:33:54 GMT
Spot on Max; no unnecessary bends. Quite clearly a diagram, and diagramaticaly clear.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 11:08:23 GMT
Mack, Some nice ideas on your map. There is a small industry of people out there who are not happy with what we have, and are trying to try their own ideas. Realistically though, although Overground can and should be ejected from the map (until they can promise a train every ten minutes on all routes, there shouldn't be anything less in Zones 1 to 3), DLR is probably here to stay. Several people at TfL/LUL have seen this map and really like it. Some of these people board readers will have heard of, but TfL is such a large unwieldy organisation that this stuff just gets derailed by career can't-be-bothereds. Have you ever tried dealing with a TfL worker bee? Its like dealing with a service robot from Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy specially trained to work at a call centre. If Henry Beck had presented his sketch to TfL it would never have been published, it would have just spent years bouncing round committee meetings! Ive only dealt with HR and thats another thread  See I object to one thing, its called a Tube Map. Its now a TfL map. wish they would change that because there is a world of difference between LU, DLR and LO which the map doesn't show. I always find it interesting to see what other people come up with. I know from personal experience how complex the map will get if all the proposed stuff gets built. Im still wondering if Crossrail (if it does get built) will be shown on the map? Or will we just have a new interchange sign? (I.E. blue Crossrail sign rather than red BR sign). Lets hope that they fix the map or start again soon or we will end up with a London Connections style unfriendly map! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 12:25:45 GMT
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Post by max on Oct 3, 2008 12:43:53 GMT
That cleans it up a lot, could flip Queen's Park over to the other side of the Bakerloo/DC Lines.
Some people get upset if lines cross other lines in the wrong place. I don't, and nor do passengers. Doesn't really matter if the Shepherd's Bush stations are flipped over left-right, the signposts will be good round there anyway.
BUT!!!!!!
I think the eventual plan is to run some WLL trains through to West Hampstead etc.!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 13:24:03 GMT
Looks really good tho as its clear and clean! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 13:25:10 GMT
I think that area needs complete redesign anyway...  |
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