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Post by slingshot on Mar 15, 2008 14:12:05 GMT
why is it that train/tube drivers sit/drive on the left
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 15, 2008 15:07:17 GMT
It's tradition!
but the new Victoria Line trains have the driving position on the right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 15:07:20 GMT
New Vic stock has driving position on the right!
Conventionalism! We drive cars on the left... so why not have the railways follow the same principles in all respects?
Technical differences between stocks exist too!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 15:29:08 GMT
If the first underground trains had driving positions on the left (there were probably good reasons for this), then the signals would have been set for sighting from the left hand side. New trains would have the driver on the same side so that signals wouldn't have to be moved.
With ATO/P and TBTC systems it isn't necessary as signal sighting isn't important.
The 09ts will have the driver on a different side because of an argument between Metronet and LU over whether platform CCTV in the train cab would be provided for reversing in platforms.
Also, most Victoria Line platforms are on the right hand side.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 15, 2008 17:38:34 GMT
The 67ts could be driven from from either side-although most t/ops seem glued to the TBC!
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 15, 2008 19:12:22 GMT
the right hand driving position was adopted because the Train Op's main focus will be on the platforms and most of the platforms are on the right. This decision was taken before any decision about mirrors/monitors whether in cab or external.
in the end the in cab OPO CCTV solution was chosen so that all shapes and sizes of Train Op can see the images clearly
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2008 20:17:34 GMT
There is a reason for putting drivers on the same side as the platforms - and no one has said it so far! If the OPO equipment (mirrors/monitors, etc) fail, platform categories & their associated procedures come into play. In simple terms, a straight platform with the driver seated on the same side means the driver can 'self dispatch' - if the driver were seated on the opposite side, at a straight platform, they'd need station staff to assist in dispatching the train. For clarity, all curved platforms usually require an assisted dispatch regardless of which side the driver is sitting - of course there are a few exceptions (aren't there always when it comes to LUL!  ;D) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2008 0:41:10 GMT
So that we can reach the TBC.
*looks innocent*
what?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2008 3:03:51 GMT
There is a reason for putting drivers on the same side as the platforms - and no one has said it so far! If the OPO equipment (mirrors/monitors, etc) fail, platform categories & their associated procedures come into play. In simple terms, a straight platform with the driver seated on the same side means the driver can 'self dispatch' - if the driver were seated on the opposite side, at a straight platform, they'd need station staff to assist in dispatching the train. For clarity, all curved platforms usually require an assisted dispatch regardless of which side the driver is sitting - of course there are a few exceptions (aren't there always when it comes to LUL! ;D) OPO equipment dinn't come into the equation until recent years. OPO is only 24 years old and we've been sitting on the left side for decades before that without an OPO mirror or monitor in sight. |
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Post by tubeprune on Mar 16, 2008 9:16:15 GMT
Just to put this into context, most railways in the UK had left hand drive because we adopted left hand running (as was done on the roads) and the signals were to the left of the track where there was room to put them. Drivers were on the left so they could see them. Only the Great Western decided to be different - as usual.
Unusually, the original Central London stock had the driver on the NORTH side of the train. The controller was so large on the locomotives the driver had to stand on one side of it. As the brake pipe was on the north side the brake valve was there too so that's where the driver went. Driving towards Bank he was on the left of the cab, driving towards Shepherds Bush he was on the right. The same arrangement was adopted for the mu trains of 1903. When they extended the line to Wood Lane in 1908 and formed a loop from Shepherds Bush - Wood Lane - Shepherds Bush, the driving position would change for each train going round the loop. So, doing the first EB trip you could be on the left, coming west you would be on the right. After going round the loop you would go east on the left and come back west on the right.
Anyone who remembers the old Sleet locos may recall that the control key and compressor was on the wrong side of the cab at one end. When they were converted from the 1903 motor cars in 1939, they moved the controllers to the left had side on all west facing cabs.
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Post by jimini on Mar 16, 2008 9:24:27 GMT
So that we can reach the TBC. *looks innocent* what? Traction / Brake Controller. Also known to non tube experts like me, as the big handle thingy in the cab that drivers use to control the train.  |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 16, 2008 12:21:38 GMT
There is a reason for putting drivers on the same side as the platforms - and no one has said it so far! If the OPO equipment (mirrors/monitors, etc) fail, platform categories & their associated procedures come into play. In simple terms, a straight platform with the driver seated on the same side means the driver can 'self dispatch' - if the driver were seated on the opposite side, at a straight platform, they'd need station staff to assist in dispatching the train. For clarity, all curved platforms usually require an assisted dispatch regardless of which side the driver is sitting - of course there are a few exceptions (aren't there always when it comes to LUL! ;D) OPO equipment dinn't come into the equation until recent years. OPO is only 24 years old and we've been sitting on the left side for decades before that without an OPO mirror or monitor in sight. I don't think I made it clear in my original reply - I meant that one of the main reasons the new Vic trains have the driver on the right is because of the implications during OPO equipment failure... |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 16, 2008 12:40:10 GMT
Conventionalism! We drive cars on the left... so why not have the railways follow the same principles in all respects? I'm not sure if 'slingshot' has had their question answered fully. Yes, we drive on the left (of the road) but car drivers sit on the right in the UK- which probably prompted the question? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2008 14:29:43 GMT
Conventionalism! We drive cars on the left... so why not have the railways follow the same principles in all respects? I'm not sure if 'slingshot' has had their question answered fully. Yes, we drive on the left (of the road) but car drivers sit on the right in the UK- which probably prompted the question? Good point. In a car you want to sit next to the oncoming traffic, especially if you're turning right. This isn't a problem for driving a train! As Colin said, the platforms tend to be on the left, so sitting on the left seems logical. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2008 21:36:12 GMT
So that we can reach the TBC. *looks innocent* what? Traction / Brake Controller. Also known to non tube experts like me, as the big handle thingy in the cab that drivers use to control the train. Whoosh! ;D ;D ;D |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 16, 2008 23:11:42 GMT
Also on the C&SLR electric locos the driver used to sit sideways(!) because the cabs were long and thin!
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Post by 21146 on Mar 16, 2008 23:47:26 GMT
The original District Railway electrified 'A' Stock of 1903 had R/H driving positions but were later rebuilt to L/H.
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Post by loughtonsiding on Mar 16, 2008 23:50:24 GMT
Just to put this into context, most railways in the UK had left hand drive because we adopted left hand running (as was done on the roads) and the signals were to the left of the track where there was room to put them. Drivers were on the left so they could see them. Only the Great Western decided to be different - as usual. There were many railways other than the GWR that had right hand drive: NER, GCR, GER, to name but three. Didn't the 1935 streamlined TS have the driver in the middle? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 17, 2008 0:02:45 GMT
Yes, you are quite right. This was disliked by the drivers (who were unable to stand up and drive either) so the cab was modified. This didn't look great and the drivers still didn't like it so they all became trailers sadly!
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Mar 17, 2008 9:30:52 GMT
Didn't the 1935 streamlined TS have the driver in the middle? Yes it did with the 'toffee-apple' controller I think. All the trains I have driven have had right-drive: diesel, steam. |
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Post by william on Mar 17, 2008 10:49:03 GMT
Didn't the 1935 streamlined TS have the driver in the middle? Yes it did with the 'toffee-apple' controller I think. This should clarify.  |
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Post by Oracle on Mar 17, 2008 11:41:10 GMT
Yes that's it! The true 'toffee apple' controllers were on the few Class 30s, later rebuilt as Class 31s. Nice, comforable seat that for the Motorman in the 1935 cab!
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Post by loughtonsiding on Mar 17, 2008 14:03:24 GMT
Yes that's it! The true 'toffee apple' controllers were on the few Class 30s, later rebuilt as Class 31s. Nice, comforable seat that for the Motorman in the 1935 cab! Both the Electro-Magnetic (orange circle symbol) control version, and the later Electro-Pneumatic (blue star) version were classed as Class 30 when they had Mirrlees engines. They became Class 31 upon re-engining with EE engines. The first 20 locos (D5500 - 19) retained the EM control, and the 'toffee apple' controller after re-engining. The controller handle, along with the straight air brake handle, was removable, and had to be taken to the other cab when changing ends. As a matter of interest, what diesels have you driven that were r/h drive? I know that Class 33 and 73 , along with shunting classes, have driving controls on both sides of the cab, but I can't think of an r/h drive only class. |
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Post by Oracle on Mar 17, 2008 14:51:01 GMT
I have driven (industrial) shunters on preserved lines. One I know had a Dormans engine, and I gather that EE owned Dormans at one time? Also a railcar though I can't recall if it had lhd or rhd. I am pretty certain that they had lhd. I nearly had a go at a Class 47 once! Steam I drove on the right and fired on the left.
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Post by william on Mar 17, 2008 15:51:45 GMT
Nice, comforable seat that for the Motorman in the 1935 cab! Strangely enough that seat type was more comfortable than it looked. |
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 17, 2008 17:13:08 GMT
Just to put this into context, most railways in the UK had left hand drive because we adopted left hand running (as was done on the roads) and the signals were to the left of the track where there was room to put them. Drivers were on the left so they could see them. Only the Great Western decided to be different - as usual. There were many railways other than the GWR that had right hand drive: NER, GCR, GER, to name but three. As does the Festiniog Railway to-day. In 1963 when 'Blanche' and 'Linda' were acquired from the Penrhyn Quarry Railway they were rapidly converted to RH drive - even to-day there is a stub of the old regulator on the quadrant, as a new longer regulator was made. |
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;D)
