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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2008 21:24:17 GMT
I'm assuming that the S stock will be the first in which it will be possible to walk through the train as one can on National Rail.
At present, regular customers know where the exit is at their destination (or interchange) and place themselves on the platform of their boarding station accordingly.
With the S stock it will be possible to hang about by the staircase and then move through the train during its journey. OK off-peak, but I can see it leading to congestion on both train and platforms during peak hours (which is most of the time for the Circle).
It would be a shame if the gangways subsequently had to be closed due to passenger behaviour.
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Post by cetacean on Jul 27, 2008 21:39:33 GMT
For one thing, I don't think it'll be possible to close the gangways.
I doubt the hardcore pre-walkers will do as you suggest, simply because of the crowds in the way. I certainly don't bother walking through a bendy bus to the appropriate end unless it's completely empty.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2008 22:25:09 GMT
I imagine that those who know where their exit is will still walk to that part of the platform while waiting for the train - only those who get to the platform when the train is already standing there will get on the nearest door and then walk through during the journey, so I doubt that additional congestion will be created when boarding.
One problem with the walkthrough design will be the idiots who decide to ride a bike or skateboard through the train, but the in-cab CCTV should help put a stop to their antics.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 27, 2008 22:48:43 GMT
One problem with the walkthrough design will be the idiots who decide to ride a bike or skateboard through the train, but the in-cab CCTV should help put a stop to their antics. Should PA announcements fail to deter them then I imagine that a judicious application of the emergency break would do the trick. Unofficially, of course. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2008 23:40:26 GMT
One problem with the walkthrough design will be the idiots who decide to ride a bike or skateboard through the train, but the in-cab CCTV should help put a stop to their antics. Should PA announcements fail to deter them then I imagine that a judicious application of the emergency break would do the trick. Unofficially, of course. I couldn't possibly comment. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2008 7:41:16 GMT
I'm assuming that the S stock will be the first in which it will be possible to walk through the train as one can on National Rail. At present, regular customers know where the exit is at their destination (or interchange) and place themselves on the platform of their boarding station accordingly. With the S stock it will be possible to hang about by the staircase and then move through the train during its journey. OK off-peak, but I can see it leading to congestion on both train and platforms during peak hours (which is most of the time for the Circle). It would be a shame if the gangways subsequently had to be closed due to passenger behaviour. There are plenty of trains on other metro systems with continuous gangways, and they don't seem to suffer the problems you fear will happen. If anything it will allow people to spread out more within the train, resulting in more even car loadings, thus reducing congestion. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Jul 28, 2008 16:49:23 GMT
One problem with the walkthrough design will be the idiots who decide to ride a bike or skateboard through the train, but the in-cab CCTV should help put a stop to their antics. Should PA announcements fail to deter them then I imagine that a judicious application of the emergency break would do the trick. Unofficially, of course. I recall an incident upon a bus where somebody refused to sit down and was standing on a seat chatting. After having flown down the centre aisle and picked themself up off the floor, they didn't do it again! |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 9, 2008 12:13:30 GMT
With the gangways on S stock, I hope that people don't then assume that they can walk through the trains made up of other stock!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2008 23:49:47 GMT
With the gangways on S stock, I hope that people don't then assume that they can walk through the trains made up of other stock! Many people already think it's OK to walk through moving trains, every day I hear the slamming of communicating doors whilst moving, despite the "risk of death" notices on the doors. |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 11, 2008 11:07:21 GMT
With the gangways on S stock, I hope that people don't then assume that they can walk through the trains made up of other stock! Many people already think it's OK to walk through moving trains, every day I hear the slamming of communicating doors whilst moving, despite the "risk of death" notices on the doors. That's just reminded me of the days when that sound usually heralded the arrival of a pair of TTIs (revenue staff in modern parlance) as opposed to today when a beggar with child is the more common sight. (I've further thought that "pair of TTIs" could give trouble if using predictive text...) |
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Post by amershamsi on Aug 11, 2008 13:53:35 GMT
A bigger problem will be the lopsidedness of all those far north of the met passengers sitting on one side - the side with the transverse seating.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 11, 2008 14:23:07 GMT
wont the transverse seating be on the left at one end of the car and the right at the other end?
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 11, 2008 16:56:18 GMT
Yes, it does appear that way! I still don't fancy looking at the side of someone's face for my journey-or vice versa!
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Post by Chris M on Aug 11, 2008 17:08:42 GMT
People don't look at each other on the tube when they're facing each other so I don't see what difference it will make.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 16:08:39 GMT
Passengers walking up and down the train will happen alot at first, then they will grow out of it. Only problems I can see is entering termini where everyone makes their way to the back/front/middle so braking might get "fruity". lol. ;-)
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Post by pakenhamtrain on Aug 17, 2008 7:14:10 GMT
CCTV still wouldn't stop them. Our Siemens have walk through gangways and I've almost had my leg ran(and a kid at one stage) into by the muppets who decide to ride thier bikes down the 3 cars and the isle isn't exactly big.
One of the downsides of have walk though gangways is that you can't lock off a car.
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Post by metman on Aug 17, 2008 10:07:37 GMT
Another problem is fire protection! A friend of mine who has just retired from Bombardier said, one of the reasons why the space train was not proceeded with was because of fire spread! It is not so bad with a sub surface train thankfully.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 21:54:57 GMT
We can't lock one car out of service on the current A, C and D stocks. My understanding is that we are actually gaining that facility with S stock, but I have no idea how it will actually work.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 18, 2008 21:58:02 GMT
At Uxbridge once, there was an A stock in the platform with all doors open except on the lead car where all the doors were closed.
Would this have been done with the car end buttons (porter buttons?) used to close doors when tipping out?
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Post by metman on Aug 18, 2008 22:01:42 GMT
Yes I think so. The only selective door features on the A stock are to cut out the rear end doors. The C and D stocks can close all but one pair.
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Post by Ben on Aug 18, 2008 22:02:01 GMT
Chris M you must be channeling my thoughts; I can remember an incident exactly the same. Some idiots had smashed the glass draught screen bits. The unit was in service till neasden I believe; I asked what had happened.
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Post by solidbond on Aug 19, 2008 16:07:47 GMT
Yes I think so. The only selective door features on the A stock are to cut out the rear end doors. The C and D stocks can close all but one pair. On the C stock you can cut out the front three pairs of doors, leaving one set open, but on D stock you can cut out the first two doors on the leading car, or the last two doors on the rear car, in each case leaving two doors open on the respective car. |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 19, 2008 17:09:38 GMT
Not only fire but what about terrorist action?
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Post by Colin on Aug 19, 2008 17:56:53 GMT
At Uxbridge once, there was an A stock in the platform with all doors open except on the lead car where all the doors were closed. Would this have been done with the car end buttons (porter buttons?) used to close doors when tipping out? In this case, the DIC (Door Isolating Cock) on that car probably would have been used; whilst we can't fully lock out a car (internal communicating doors have no locks of course), we can use the DIC to isolate a single car - I can only imagine it'd be used if it were an end car and there were only a few stops left, or it was the last train. For example, I have seen a C stock worked from Earls Court to Edgware Road with the last car's DIC operated following vandalism by Chelsea football supporters where they smashed every single tube light in the car. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 19, 2008 18:07:41 GMT
This was the leading car (on departure from Uxbridge), and it was the middle of the day. I think the train was advertised as far as Baker Street or Aldagate, but I was only travelling as far as Ruislip so I don't know if it actually terminated sooner than that (presumably it would be taken out of service at Wembley Park if it were going to Neasden depot?)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 18:39:12 GMT
For example, I have seen a C stock worked from Earls Court to Edgware Road with the last car's DIC operated following vandalism by Chelsea football supporters where they smashed every single tube light in the car. This shouldn't really be done according to current practice. I believe the theory is that in the event of detrainment between stations passengers would be forced to pass through the car with the broken glass. |
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Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2008 21:48:04 GMT
Another problem is fire protection! A friend of mine who has just retired from Bombardier said, one of the reasons why the space train was not proceeded with was because of fire spread! It is not so bad with a sub surface train thankfully. Not really an issue to be honest, the only flammable thing on this train will be anything that passengers bring on with them. |
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Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2008 21:50:21 GMT
We can't lock one car out of service on the current A, C and D stocks. My understanding is that we are actually gaining that facility with S stock, but I have no idea how it will actually work. No, we can't lock a car out of service on 'S' Stock - but as you say, we don't do it today on the current stock. In fact, if you cut out the doors on a motor car of 'C' Stock you lose the air off the cab doors and they end up swinging open and closed causing a lose of pilot light!  |
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Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2008 21:54:48 GMT
Not only fire but what about terrorist action? We cannot design a 'bomb proof' train. Also why should we alter the design (not that it would make a difference) and thus reduce the flexible nature of the stock causing a daily dis-benefit to our customers over a 40 year period in order to avoid a possible future attack of some kind? In any case, you could argue that gangway stock allows customers to move away from any kind of incident quicker and easier than on carriage stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 18:31:12 GMT
Not only fire but what about terrorist action? We cannot design a 'bomb proof' train. Also why should we alter the design (not that it would make a difference) and thus reduce the flexible nature of the stock causing a daily dis-benefit to our customers over a 40 year period in order to avoid a possible future attack of some kind? In any case, you could argue that gangway stock allows customers to move away from any kind of incident quicker and easier than on carriage stock. Finally, a word of sense on the terrorism subject, can you please run for PM?? And, an explosion compacted against an end of carriage bulkhead will do far more damage than one that can dissipate with ease into an open carriage. Hmm, random thought, but should Godwins law be changed so it applies to terrorism instead of the Nazis - seems you can't have discussion about anything these days without someone mentioning the T word!! (for the non-geeks.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law) |
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