Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 16, 2008 23:43:59 GMT
I travelled on ELW the other day, admittedly off-peak but there were only three of us on the double decker, and the other two people got off at Shadwell so it was just me between there and Wapping. Is this usual?
If so would it not be better to use smaller buses?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2008 3:17:16 GMT
I've seen ELS go past me on several occasions at the Old Street roundabout and no-one has been on it, although that service is finishing soon replaced by an extension of ELW at 30-minute intervals.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 17, 2008 13:00:03 GMT
Indeed, the ELS is to be withdrawn after the last bus tomorrow 18 July. It is to be covered by an extension of the ELW, at similar times to the withdrawn section.
The ELW is also to be converted to single-deck (DMS-class) buses.
The ELC is to see a service reduction too, from 10 vehicles M-F to 6.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 17, 2008 16:04:10 GMT
I suspect the powers that be thought a service that hasn't adequately replaced the train service would still prove popular - I'm sure we all knew what was going happen and could have educated them if they'd asked!  Don't be surprised if you see a double decker in the future though - although the contract is being revised to single decks, if a double deck is the only vehicle available it will of course be used. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 17, 2008 18:37:14 GMT
Even if they weren't providing a cross-river service, I never understood why four rather than two bus services were appropriate.
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Post by rrbs on Jul 23, 2008 14:54:51 GMT
Even if they weren't providing a cross-river service, I never understood why four rather than two bus services were appropriate. Because you're not thinking. How easy was it to withdraw the ELP? Imagine if had been a through route? ELS was a given , it was in place with a contract before the line closed. Sometimes there is a bigger picture then what you see from the 'outside' so to speak. |
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Post by rrbs on Jul 23, 2008 15:00:00 GMT
I suspect the powers that be thought a service that hasn't adequately replaced the train service would still prove popular - I'm sure we all knew what was going happen and could have educated them if they'd asked! Don't be surprised if you see a double decker in the future though - although the contract is being revised to single decks, if a double deck is the only vehicle available it will of course be used. 1. No what would have happened is we'd have provided a much lighter service and everyone would have turned up. You can't win so stop telling me you can. 2. I'd be surprised if I saw a double decker as I have the benefit of having seen a double decker do the route, and have addressed a number of highway safety issues to do with double-deck operation. The biggest bus that fits is a DM-class, a couple of which are currently being used whilst the final DMS class are prepped. Mark ELW Officianado |
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Post by rrbs on Jul 23, 2008 15:03:22 GMT
I've seen ELS go past me on several occasions at the Old Street roundabout and no-one has been on it, although that service is finishing soon replaced by an extension of ELW at 30-minute intervals. There are no roundabouts on the route of the ELS, or the ELW extension. The only roundabout on the ELW is after Wapping station. Next! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 20:10:54 GMT
New order buses at Dagenham garage both E200 single deck and E400 double deck will have ELW blinds and destinations "Shadwell, Shoreditch, Whitechapel and Wapping" available.
However the route, with the transfer to DMS class darts, transferred to be worked out of Lea Interchange garage.
Memory temporarilly escapes me as to what is fitted blinds wise, there but the E400's destined Northumberland Park (route 231) do have relevant displays.
However I'd agree any further Double Deck operation must be considered a long shot. It's more likely any imballance would find the Double Deck allocated elsewhere to provide a single, unless it's a last bus in the garage scenario. However I don't know the results of vehicle length tests over the ELS part !
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Post by rrbs on Jul 23, 2008 22:35:18 GMT
First are probably just planning on me changing my mind again and hence getting ELW blinds in everything makes it easier when I do!!! The deckers will not fit round the new ELW. They probably will go round the revised ELS routing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 18:50:08 GMT
I suspect the powers that be thought a service that hasn't adequately replaced the train service would still prove popular - I'm sure we all knew what was going happen and could have educated them if they'd asked! To my mind, those EL buses are so awkward to use as to be next to useless. I find it bizarre that they couldn't have one service to cover the whole of a very short line. Yeah, I gather there are issues around the Rotherhithe tunnel, but were they really insurmountable? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 24, 2008 19:08:50 GMT
1. No what would have happened is we'd have provided a much lighter service and everyone would have turned up. You can't win so stop telling me you can. 2. I'd be surprised if I saw a double decker as I have the benefit of having seen a double decker do the route, and have addressed a number of highway safety issues to do with double-deck operation. The biggest bus that fits is a DM-class, a couple of which are currently being used whilst the final DMS class are prepped. Mark ELW Officianado You appear to have been offended, judging by your forthright response! I'm sorry you've taken me to heart  The last time the whole East London line was replaced, it was done in a such a way that sensible journey options were offered and double decks were certainly needed. I do appreciate that there are now other alternatives such as the Jubilee line (which weren't about back then) - I was merely implying that perhaps putting out double decks was a tad optimistic given the limited journey potential. Naturally you would have done you're homework and were working to what you felt was the likely outcome - was that the case and reality has turned out different then? I'm just curious as to what's involved in the rail replacement game - how much research is done in advance? |
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Post by rrbs on Jul 25, 2008 15:44:35 GMT
I suspect the powers that be thought a service that hasn't adequately replaced the train service would still prove popular - I'm sure we all knew what was going happen and could have educated them if they'd asked! To my mind, those EL buses are so awkward to use as to be next to useless. I find it bizarre that they couldn't have one service to cover the whole of a very short line. Yeah, I gather there are issues around the Rotherhithe tunnel, but were they really insurmountable? Would you consider it a good use of taxpayers money to build a new tunnel? We looked in to getting a boat. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 25, 2008 16:40:03 GMT
Has there ever been a rail replacement boat service? Not just in London but anywhere?
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 25, 2008 17:04:40 GMT
I have found a few shots of replacement Thames services taken near Charing Cross Pier. They evidently used passenger cruise craft, tugs, etc.! It must be pre-1948 I think...as it mentions LNER below.
The captions are:
"boat thames place london emergency transport for lptb london passenger transport board city hall westminster bridge"
On Boadicea's momument is an LT sign with LT-style arrow TO THE EMERGENCY PASSENGER RIVER SERVICE >>>>>----> The LT roundels appear to be red with black bar.
On a chalkboard it says:
TOWER PIER
TUNNEL PIER
CHERRY GARDENS
BRUNSWICK something
GREENWICH
WOOLWICH LNER PIER
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 17:59:46 GMT
I have found a few shots of replacement Thames services taken near Charing Cross Pier. They evidently used passenger cruise craft, tugs, etc.! It must be pre-1948 I think...as it mentions LNER below. The captions are: "boat thames place london emergency transport for lptb london passenger transport board city hall westminster bridge" This was a wartime emergency river bus service, which ran for a few weeks in 1940. It was operated by the Tram & Trolleybus Division of LPTB (with boats provided by the PLA) - and as it took twice as long as the trams, was not a success, |
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Oracle
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RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Jul 25, 2008 18:25:23 GMT
Thanks..I could'nt see any barrage baloons, and any other expected wartime activity BUT Waterloo Bridge is evidently being built in the background and construction started in 1940 so this makes sense.
As an aside, my late grandfather was, as mentioned before, a Permanent Way Ganger Forman on the Underground at the time. Because he had to get to places anywhere in London by road vehicle he was allowed fuel rations for his Ford car when rationing came in and effectively private motoring was banned.
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