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Post by ruislip on Jun 23, 2008 16:36:10 GMT
Is it safe to say that the 2xx and 3xx set numbers have been used on the Picc ever since 1959 stock entered service? I recall some pictures of Standard stock, with the 1xx and 2xx used. Also, from a picture of Her Majesty opening the Heathrow extension in 1977, I noticed the train had a set number of 465. Were set numbers this high used when the Heathrow extension was opened, or was this just because it was a "special" train? Finally, did the Picc ever use 5xx set numbers? I recall seeing a train with set number 500 at Rayners Lane in 1971 on a Saturday.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 23, 2008 16:50:34 GMT
No. When the 1959 stock entered service the numbers used for the first 3 WTTs with 1959TS were 19x for the complete set and then 19x/29x for the uncoupled portions, the third digit remained the same for each half.
WTT 3 for the Victoria line had to change the set numbers on the Vic to make them 'sufficiently different' from the Picc Line.
I'll have a look when I return home as I've got a reasonably full run (these days) of Picc WTTs from that era; can probably tell you exactly when the 3xx series came in without too much ado.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2008 19:12:55 GMT
I wouldn't draw any conclusion from an odd example. On the District, all numbers are 0xx or 1xx normally, but if an emergency timetable is brought in then 3xx, 4xx, 5xx, 6xx and 7xx may make an appearance!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 23, 2008 19:38:20 GMT
Having had a trawl through the WTTs WTT 82 (21/3/60) has all set numbers in 2xx series, can't find 81 (14/9/59), so it might have come in with that WTT; the set numbers were arranged thus: 1959TS 201 - 239, Standard Stock 240 - 270 and 290, 1938TS 271 - 283. The last one I can find with that in is WTT 87 (17/6/63); can't find WTT 88 [1]. However WTT 89 (introduction of 24hr times, 7/9/64 - delayed until 12/10/64 as was the Bakerloo) has the first mention of 3xx set numbers: 251 - 257, 260 - 263 for '38TS and 270 - 277, 300 - 307, 310 - 317, 320 - 327, 330 - 337, 340 - 347, 350 - 357, 360 - 367, 370 - 374 for '59TS.
Observant readers will conclude that this is concurrent with the introduction of programme machines (no digit higher than 8 or 9 in the final position, 7 in the medial position and 3 in the initial position) and the departure of the Standard Stock. I can probably find out exactly when that was - as elsewhere in the LU library I've got most of the District/Picc yellow perils for the introduction of Automatic Junction Working/Programme Machines but I suspect that the numbering changed in advance as happened with the Bakerloo timetables.
[1] I think the missing ones are somewhere in the WTT mountain as at least one appears in the database!
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Post by c5 on Jun 23, 2008 20:46:05 GMT
The highest train number on the Dist/Picc PM rolls can be 374. 375,376,377 are reserved for start of service, end of service and something else! The Computer and PLCs used between Boston Manor and Heathrow can only go as far as that too! 8 and 9 are not allowed!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 23, 2008 21:29:41 GMT
The highest train number on the Dist/Picc PM rolls can be 374. 375,376,377 are reserved for start of service, end of service and something else! From memory: 375 - start of service 376 - end of service 377 - programme roll has got too excited and fallen off the carrier with the contact fingers in; 000 is the same but the fingers are out. I'll check 375/6 as I've got a PM roll next to me; just in case I've got them the wrong way round.
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Post by c5 on Jun 23, 2008 21:50:34 GMT
The highest train number on the Dist/Picc PM rolls can be 374. 375,376,377 are reserved for start of service, end of service and something else! From memory: 375 - start of service 376 - end of service 377 - programme roll has got too excited and fallen off the carrier with the contact fingers in; 000 is the same but the fingers are out. I'll check 375/6 as I've got a PM roll next to me; just in case I've got them the wrong way round. The first two are definatly correct it's the 377 that I couldn't recall, mainly as it is usually 000, then comes back on a number several hours in the future
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2008 15:13:42 GMT
yep u have got it right also prog machines cannot show a 9
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 30, 2008 8:02:29 GMT
From memory: 375 - start of service 376 - end of service 377 - programme roll has got too excited and fallen off the carrier with the contact fingers in; 000 is the same but the fingers are out. I'll check 375/6 as I've got a PM roll next to me; just in case I've got them the wrong way round. The first two are definatly correct it's the 377 that I couldn't recall, mainly as it is usually 000, then comes back on a number several hours in the future 377 is the code used by signal staff when fault finding because it tests all the bits. Programme machines and the Picc East End HP computers are of course using not decimal, binary or hexadecimal but octal coding which was of course current technology when PMs were introduced. The Heathrow HP computer was like those at the east end but did not control the lever frame and was simply acting as PMs only. I don't know but this computer may have been replaced as part of the resignalling for the T5 extension.
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