Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 13, 2008 10:07:57 GMT
Sorry to pick this apart, but there's a few errors here: Acton Town Parsons Green Putney Bridge* Dagenham East Dagenham Heathway Barking East Ham Hornchurch Earls Court Gunnersbury Plaistow High Street Kensington Ealing Common West Kensington South Kensington Aldgate East Mansion House Embankment Whitechapel Bromley-by-Bow Hammersmith You've missed some - and trains cannot reverse at Dagenham Heathway on account that there are no points there  ;D ;D I'd also question Hammersmith, as the only reversible moves there are for the Piccadilly line. Missing locations to be added are: Upney Tower Hill Gloucester Road (though admittedly that's more a Circle line job) East Putney Wimbledon Park Trains can reverse in either direction at Whitechapel, East Ham, Earls Court, Acton Town and Parsons Green Some of those can done in passenger service, some can't - and you've missed out loads more! As far as Acton Town goes, that's only reversible in both directions by making use of the Piccadilly line. Rather than make it too complicated, I'll just add to your list in the context of locations where trains can be reversed to & from both directions in service (regardless of siding shunts, etc): Hornchurch Dagenham East Barking East Ham Plaistow Bromley-by-Bow Aldgate East Embankment South Kensington West Kensington Gunnersbury *The bay road at Putney Bridge can only accommodate one C stock train. While both C and D stock trains can reverse using the SB-NB crossover on the bridge To be pedantic, the District line runs east/west NOT south/North!! |
|
|
|
Post by setttt on Jun 13, 2008 10:54:13 GMT
I'd also question Hammersmith, as the only reversible moves there are for the Piccadilly line. Districts can reverse at Hammersmith too. From Barons Court WB, cross over to WB picc then into Barons Court siding, proceed through the siding into the EB picc platform at Hammersmith, change ends, cross over to the EB district immediately east of Hammersmith. The move can be done in passenger service. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 10:55:16 GMT
Acton Town Parsons Green Putney Bridge* Dagenham East Dagenham Heathway Barking East Ham Hornchurch Earls Court Gunnersbury Plaistow High Street Kensington Ealing Common West Kensington South Kensington Aldgate East Mansion House Embankment Whitechapel Bromley-by-Bow Hammersmith Trains can reverse in either direction at Whitechapel, East Ham, Earls Court, Acton Town and Parsons Green *The bay road at Putney Bridge can only accommodate one C stock train. While both C and D stock trains can reverse using the SB-NB crossover on the bridge Given that we have a lot of District drivers on this forum, you are just telling many members (innaccurately) something that they already know. |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 13, 2008 11:26:35 GMT
Districts can reverse at Hammersmith too. From Barons Court WB, cross over to WB picc then into Barons Court siding, proceed through the siding into the EB picc platform at Hammersmith, change ends, cross over to the EB district immediately east of Hammersmith. The move can be done in passenger service. There's always one isn't there  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 12:12:58 GMT
Very true, however it ought to born in mind that there are many other members who are not District Lines drivers and providing the information is useful, is helpful
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 13, 2008 13:35:08 GMT
My file, whilst out-of-date, still has some relevance here: www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/psul.htmWhilst I agree totally with Colin, I must be excused for having a little chuckle there! You could I suppose suggest that Northfields could be used, as it has been within living memory. In which case it is reversal via depot, reversing siding or WB>EB Fast platforms. I refuse to mention anything more about using the Picc! Colin would have a fit! The #-over at Victoria has long gone and those with very long memories will remember North Ealing's manual #-over. |
|
|
|
Post by JR 15secs on Jun 13, 2008 18:20:56 GMT
My file, whilst out-of-date, still has some relevance here: www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/psul.htmWhilst I agree totally with Colin, I must be excused for having a little chuckle there! You could I suppose suggest that Northfields could be used, as it has been within living memory. In which case it is reversal via depot, reversing siding or WB>EB Fast platforms. I refuse to mention anything more about using the Picc! Colin would have a fit! The #-over at Victoria has long gone and those with very long memories will remember North Ealing's manual #-over. I don't remember a X over at Victoria only a single set of points at St James Park. |
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on Jun 13, 2008 19:00:18 GMT
Sorrry everyone for getting the info wrong. I'm only 12 after all. At around 7:35 every weekday morning, there is a train which leaves Wimbledon for Dagenham Heathway, so it must get detrained and continue to Dghm East.
|
|
|
|
Post by c5 on Jun 13, 2008 19:15:43 GMT
Sorrry everyone for getting the info wrong. I'm only 12 after all. You'll be recruited as a direct recruit Service Controller then soon.....  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 19:28:45 GMT
At around 7:35 every weekday morning, there is a train which leaves Wimbledon for Dagenham Heathway, so it must get detrained and continue to Dghm East. I don't have my timetable to hand, but I'm pretty certain this is not the case as there is no reason to detrain at Heathway and run empty to Dag East. |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jun 13, 2008 19:35:32 GMT
In WTT 135 (13/1/08) train 17 runs off Wimbledon 0736½, passenger to Barking, reverse 0847½ in Barking 21rd, 0900 off 21rd and back into bold type 0903 off Barking.
|
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Jun 13, 2008 19:39:07 GMT
Sorrry everyone for getting the info wrong. I'm only 12 after all. At around 7:35 every weekday morning, there is a train which leaves Wimbledon for Dagenham Heathway, so it must get detrained and continue to Dghm East. There are NO trains timetabled to terminate at Dagenham Heathway - the termination point for the train would be Dagenham East. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 20:15:27 GMT
Missing locations to be added are: Upney Tower Hill Gloucester Road (though admittedly that's more a Circle line job) East Putney Wimbledon Park How do trains reverse at East Putney? I'm sure there's no crossover or anything there.  |
|
|
|
Post by c5 on Jun 13, 2008 20:20:03 GMT
Missing locations to be added are: Upney Tower Hill Gloucester Road (though admittedly that's more a Circle line job) East Putney Wimbledon Park How do trains reverse at East Putney? I'm sure there's no crossover or anything there. There is an emergency hand worked crossover. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 20:21:52 GMT
Where is that crossover in relation to the station?
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jun 13, 2008 20:25:57 GMT
There is an emergency hand worked crossover. How often is it used by District trains; from its location I'd have thought it was more likely (though not exclusively so) to be used by trains from the Putney reversible off Point Unpleasant? |
|
|
|
Post by c5 on Jun 13, 2008 20:27:44 GMT
It is just south of the station.
I don't know when it was last used.
Back to Acton. It has been done a few times E-W recently, W-E could only be done if it ran down the WBFL ex Hammersmith and from Acton East End Sidings it is not possible to get to the EB Local Line (without shunting via Ealing Common depot!)
Ealing Common can be done both ways, but reversing is only possible via the depot.
Parsons Green is only via the sidings.
Earls Court is E-W via "The Yard" and W-E off platform 3.
Gloucester Road is IR to OR off the platform back to High St Ken only, or Main Line shunt OR to IR on the Cromwell Curve (I don't know if D stock is permitted to do that).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 20:33:14 GMT
I've never seen it be used by District line trains. Normally, if they want to suspend the service around here, it's suspended Putney Bridge to Wimbledon.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 13, 2008 22:06:36 GMT
How do trains reverse at East Putney? I'm sure there's no crossover or anything there. I'll come to that in a minute, first of of all I'd like to add to what the best signaller at Earls Court said (can I have the stick early now? ;D ;D)..... There is an emergency hand worked crossover. It's not handworked in the traditional LUL sense; there is a ground frame which can only be operated by a suitably qualified Network Rail person on site, and working in conjunction with the signaller at Wimbledon. Where is that crossover in relation to the station? Here you go (the image is clickable if you want a bigger version):  The crossover in question is number 2 points. Trains traveling Westbound (down) towards Wimbledon can reverse back Eastbound as follows: detrain in East Putney platform, move forward under hand signals to the 'LUL Limit of Shunt' sign, change ends, cross over into the Eastbound platform under hand signals, resume normal working from the platform. Trains traveling Eastbound (Up) from Wimbledon can reverse back Westbound as follows: detrain in east Putney platform, cross over to the Westbound line under hand signals, resume normal working where instructed. The important thing to remember are that the points can only be worked by the ground frame operator after control is handed over from the signaller at Wimbledon - this is why all moves are controlled by hand signals (and most likely they will be backed up with verbal instructions - all persons involved must come to a complete understanding on how train movements are to be controlled, including the limits of the moves). How often is it used by District trains; from its location I'd have thought it was more likely (though not exclusively so) to be used by trains from the Putney reversible off Point Unpleasant? As you can probably tell from the above, there would have to be a dire situation to warrant the effort involved in using this crossover, I've only ever met one person that has claimed to see it in operation........not that I can remember who that was! ;D ;D ;D ;D I've never seen it be used by District line trains. Normally, if they want to suspend the service around here, it's suspended Putney Bridge to Wimbledon. Again I imagine you can now see why we normally use Putney Bridge if we're not going through to Wimbledon... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 22:42:38 GMT
Thank you very much everybody for your explanations.
|
|
solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
Posts: 1,215
|
Post by solidbond on Jun 13, 2008 22:43:36 GMT
I know that it was used, some years ago now before I worked on the District Line (so pre-Oct 1995), when the bridge over the Thames was being repaired (IIRC, following it being hit by a barge on the Thames - the Thames Bubbler comes to mind) Due to the damage to the bridge, it was deemed unsafe to allow the trains stuck between the bridge and Wimbledon to travel over the bridge, so they were used as a Wimbledon to East Putney shuttle. I also seem to recall it being used during weekend engineering works after I started on the District, albeit probably not long after I started on the line |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 0:03:35 GMT
Trains traveling Eastbound (Up) from Wimbledon can reverse back Westbound as follows: detrain in east Putney platform, cross over to the Westbound line under hand signals, resume normal working where instructed. Is it actually necessary to detrain before doing the move? I don't see why passengers couldn't be carried westbound from the eastbound platform in these circumstances. |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jun 14, 2008 0:21:59 GMT
Erm, I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but those points aren't tracklocked. It's a two-lever groundframe. Lever 1 release and Lever 2 crossover - release lever reverse bridges out approach locking/route holding functions and cuts feeds to appropriate GRs. edit - DRs and HRs, as this isn't just LU signalling As it's a trailing crossover, and I think (it's rather late at night) you are talking about a passenger move over the emergency crossover in the reverse and facing position - without being too sure of what is there on the ground (I suspect only two normal detection contacts on the blades) you'd need to at least clip those points reverse (in your scenario) before a passenger [1] train can go over those points in any lie in the facing direction. [1] as an aside why use 'pax' for passengers (as I was pondering to use that word there)- to me as a Latin speaker  it means 'peace' not a horde? |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 14, 2008 1:52:11 GMT
Is it actually necessary to detrain before doing the move? I don't see why passengers couldn't be carried westbound from the eastbound platform in these circumstances. Well you're an I/O - your call!!  ;D ;D ;D I have always been under the impression that you don't carry passengers over it - I'm sure I was told [by my road training I/O] it was to with the detection/protection against movement under the train side of things and was regardless of whether or not scotches & clips were used. The frame does have an indication of which way the points are set (as does Wimbledon) - meaning scotches & clips are not needed (unless both indications fail, of course) - but I'm with mrfs42; I wouldn't like to rely on those indications proving too much when the blades are in the reverse position. Without clarification, if I were put in the position of making a choice right now........I'd have a passenger carrying request recorded via the line controllers phone line and in writing from a DMT on the scene which would include my concern at such a move - ie, I'd coat myself in 'Teflon' before embarking on such a move..... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 10:07:26 GMT
Is it actually necessary to detrain before doing the move? I don't see why passengers couldn't be carried westbound from the eastbound platform in these circumstances. Well you're an I/O - your call!! ;D ;D ;D Yes, I probably should know this! In my defence, I am currently off sick, so can't check. |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 14, 2008 16:37:29 GMT
t one time the Putney #-over was essential for BR who did p/way work. It would also have been required should stock need to be transferred and the Down Windsors were blocked, or p/way work on the Up Windsors. Of course the Up flyover has long gone.
Nowadays, as per North Ealing, if you took it out immediately it would be regretted! Is Totteridge & Whetstone still there? That was a manual G/F as well.
There are near here two G/Fs at Netley, and Woolston, on the Southampton-Fareham line. Netley is very sparingly used and Woolston probably more so dependoing on where the work is. Both are used when there is engineering work, and I have seen and photo'd the ops. The #-over is facing towards Fareham and so trains reverse in the Southampton-bound platform. The points were at one stage, as with Netley, controlled by the adjacent signal boxes. The NR operator calls the Eastleigh (?) box and then hand signasls with flags the driver. The points are clipped & scotched. It takes seconds to remove them! There is also a G/F just north of St Denys on the Down>Up. I have never knowjn it to be used even when there is engineering work.
|
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on Jun 15, 2008 16:20:17 GMT
Yes I know this is not really related to reversers but oh well. What is going to happen to the bay at Putney Bridge station when the S Stock comes in?
Thanks
Uzair
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 15, 2008 23:16:05 GMT
Last I heard, the plan was to make the current westbound through platform into the bay road, and have through trains use the current bay road.
Obviously some form of extension would be required to the current bay platform (I'd hazard a guess at the west end, as it'd be easier to do if the current westbound through road were the bay), and changes to the track layout would naturally also be needed.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 14:01:20 GMT
Is it actually necessary to detrain before doing the move? I don't see why passengers couldn't be carried westbound from the eastbound platform in these circumstances. I'm inclined to agree with ADW. I was always told all reversing moves on NR metals can be performed passenger (even where a detrainment may none the less be logical). I've never been told anything different about this location. I've had a quick look at the LUL issue of NR rules and this doesn't seem to prohibit it, or for that matter mention it. I can't find my line supplemement at the moment however ! |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,310
|
Post by Colin on Jun 19, 2008 14:24:58 GMT
I can't find my line supplemement at the moment however ! I'll save you the bother of looking - you won't find any clarification in there; I know cos I looked in it for clarification before I posted my teflon post above ;D ;D ;D |
|
Acton Town
;D ;D
it means 'peace' not a horde?
