Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on May 6, 2008 19:31:06 GMT
My son's friend got a PAYG oyster and last week used it for the first time........and came up with -£2 left on it even though that's allegedly imposssible! Here's how - can any of you LU ticket office staff explain? He had £10 on it. He made various journeys, all charged correctly (£4 worth in Z1-2) . Then he went to Putney Bridge for the football. He touched out at PB at 1911 and went straight to the footie match. He returned into PB at 2215 and went straight to Padd, touching in and out correctly every time. BUT the system decided he touched back in at PB at 1925 (by which time he was in the ground) and ignored the touching in at 2215. So, two unresolved journeys at £4 a time and the remaining £6 became -£2 as stated above. Nothing bleeped at Padd to warn him and the gates let him out without complaint. He is phoning Oyster to get a refund, being prepared to show the match ticket to prove the mistake was not his,but: 1. Why should he have to? 2. What caused the system to do this random thing? 3. Why did it not show up at the time (only checking online afterwards showed anything up - - and he was doing it for personal "audit" purposes and never suspected there had been a fault)? 4. How is it possible to be allowed to travel with a negative balance? Needless to say he is far from impressed with his first Oyster experience - and I get it in the neck for recommending it  Answers anyone? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 6, 2008 19:49:25 GMT
I can only speak with regard to my personal experience, but it is very easy to miss a double beep/message at a ticket gate unless you are looking for it. This is because your attention is on the gates / what is infront of you, not on the message display. After all the problems I've had, I now routinely check my journey history at ticket machines and online in case I haven't spotted an error (I didn't spot getting two unresolved journeys on an 18-minute Paddington - Bayswater journey the other day, for example). While we're on the subject, can anyone explain this oddity from my online journey history: | 18:49 | North Greenwich | Exit | £1.00 | £12.90 | | 17:09 | Kensal Green | Entry | - £4.00 | £10.90 | | 16:52 | Kensal Rise | Exit | £2.20 | £14.90 |
After exiting Kensal Rise station I was refunded £2.20 as the difference between the £4 maximum cash fare and the £1.80 fare from Debden. My balance was then £14.90. I entered at Kensal Green station, and £4 was deducted as is normal, taking my balacne to £12.90. The fare for the journey from there to North Greenwich should be £2, so I should have been refunded £2 when I tapped out. However the system records refunding me only £1, but my balance increased to £12.90 as if I'd been refunded £2!?! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2008 20:02:41 GMT
For some strange reason, a friend experienced a similar situation recently, Having travelled from Highbury & Islington to Covent Garden, changing at Kings Cross, he exits CVG, re-enters Leicester Sq around 40 minutes later, travels to Waterloo and exits at the JLE end, the system did not record him entering Leicester Sq, so was charged £4 max fare. Around 25 minutes later, he reenters the Bakerloo gatesline at Waterloo and travels to Euston, here again, it did not record him exiting at Euston...
However, two days later, the system decided it was in error and automatically refunds him £8, at Camden Road, a station he does use fairly often...
Weird this Oyster PAYG system, I still say you should be able to set up a ODTC for say zones 1234 on it, and the system deducts that amount, no worries about totting up to reach a cap; if you go outside the zones selected for that ODTC, THEN duduct the prepay!
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Post by Tomcakes on May 6, 2008 21:13:13 GMT
It's completely unfair - the system is set up to assume the passenger is in the wrong, and LU in the right. Staff don't appear to have much power, and simply regurgitate the phone number - so you have to waste your time and money, claiming back what is actually yours in the first place...
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Post by superteacher on May 6, 2008 21:18:42 GMT
It was never an issue until they introduced the 2 hour maximum cash fare rule. I posted in another thread about my issue at Hammersmith the other week. Judging by how busy the Oyster helpline is, the system must make thousands of cock ups on a weekly basis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2008 7:28:07 GMT
To answer the original questions:
1) Because TfL have decided there is no need for ticket offices, so a central helpline was set up to remove the need to have staff present.
2) More than likely the gate was offline. This isn't always very obvious to gateline staff and new staff aren't trained to spot such a thing. Basically if a gate goes off line the gate time will not be updated. Gates also fail and have been known to lose time for a short period before self correcting.
3) The system isn't designed to show up any problems on exit, probably because there is the assumption that there should be no problems in the first place.
4) As long as you have the minimum journey amount on your Oyster card when you start your journey you will always be able to complete your journey albeit with a negative balance. Interestingly (sic) if your card hasn't capped yet, but is on the verge of capping, you still need the minimum entry credit, even if this is more than the cap. (you won't get overcharged but you may need a slightly higher balance)
The system is unfair as well as biased against those without access to computers, credit cards etc. Strange when we have a policy of inclusion, we have a ticketing system that is IMHO fundementally exclusive for certain sections of society.
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on May 7, 2008 11:19:25 GMT
2) More than likely the gate was offline. This isn't always very obvious to gateline staff and new staff aren't trained to spot such a thing. Basically if a gate goes off line the gate time will not be updated. Gates also fail and have been known to lose time for a short period before self correcting. Thanks SS, I wouldn't ever believe if you hadn't told me that one gate could show a different time from another - so much for centralization!! But that explains perfectly the odd goings-on. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2008 21:05:18 GMT
Perhaps they should update the screen on the gates to show the time? I realise this might not be practible with the 1st Generation Air Operated Gates [the ones which make a loud ka-blam when they open]... surely it could be made easier? The current set up just causes issues for gateline staff... I hope those staff who have experienced such abuse, have forwarded their views to the Oyster Hauptmann.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 11, 2008 23:34:33 GMT
I'm glad I've got into the habit of always checking my Oyster journey history when I've finished my travels for the day.
Today (Sunday) I made three very simple journeys:
Debden - Chancery Lane
Holborn - Kings Cross
Kings Cross - Debden
Sunday's are off peak all day, the off peak zone 6 to zone 1 single fare on Oyster is £2.00. Yet still it's charged me £3.50 (i.e. the peak fare) for my first journey. So I shall be on the phone to the helpline again tomorrow morning.
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Post by Tomcakes on May 11, 2008 23:45:28 GMT
Ought to send them an invoice demanding repayment of phone bills - including interest.
It's stupid to expect passengers to have to phone up a god-awful helldesk when it could, if they did it properly, be done at the station.
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