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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 13:19:53 GMT
What do you believe constitutes a good DVA? I believe in clearness, briefness and informativeness. But there must be many opinions.
What should future DVAs be like?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 16:03:15 GMT
Future DVA announcements should be shorter IMHO. Cut all the stuff about riverboats (they've already chosen to take the train!) and tourist attractions (if they've figured out how to get on the right train, surely they'll have worked out when to get off it).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 17:19:34 GMT
Although, Ideally, I think a good one would be none at all, I have to agree with adw. Short, sweet and clear.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 17:20:11 GMT
Interchange information for the next station should be made between stations and not in the platform on arrival. What's the point of telling passengers that this is Monumewnt change for the DLR, just as the doors close. They can get ready if information was given before arrival.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 23:16:41 GMT
Interchange information for the next station should be made between stations and not in the platform on arrival. What's the point of telling passengers that this is Monumewnt change for the DLR, just as the doors close. They can get ready if information was given before arrival. The interchange information is given between stations on C and D stocks, although it is repeated on arrival. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 0:59:48 GMT
Maybe:
Next station: Victoria
Interchange for the Victoria Line
District Line to Wimbledon
Next station: Upminster
Interchange for National Rail
Terminus station
EDIT:
And then:
Victoria station
Interchange for the Victoria Line
District Line to Wimbledon
Upminster station
Interchange for National Rail
Terminus station
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 1:36:38 GMT
The interchange information is given between stations on C and D stocks, although it is repeated on arrival. Are you sure, I'm pretty sure the next station name is announced on the D stock. But, my point is there is too much information on arrival, passengers should already be preparing to get off and not sitting listening to the DVA for their change. I find it an irk when I'm ready to shut the doors and a bunch of people suddenly decide they want to change. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 15, 2007 9:06:26 GMT
Between stations:
The next station is Embankment, change for the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
Arriving into station:
This is Embankment.
At station (a couple of seconds after the doors have opened):
This is a District Line train to Upminster, the next station is Temple
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 11:29:25 GMT
Come on Jim, you mean you don't listen to the DVA between stations ! lol !
I agree with the majority.
Between stations
announce next stop and Rail / LUL / DLR interchanges ONLY.
At station
announce station name and train destination.
For D stock (and future stocks)
Door Chimes should NOT override announcements, but go together.
(so you can announce "stand clear of the doors" as they begin to close)
We also need the facillity to pre enter, that a line is suspended, part suspended or covered in part by rail replacement buses.
(we can pre enter, on D stock, that there are severe delays or minor delays or that a particular station is closed). Pre-entered announcements are triggered by the train at suitable predetermined junctures.
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Post by happybunny on Sept 15, 2007 11:37:32 GMT
(we can pre enter, on D stock, that there are severe delays or minor delays or that a particular station is closed). Pre-entered announcements are triggered by the train at suitable predetermined junctures. How do you do this on a D stock? I thought it could only announce circle line problems, no other line, and only when the driver manually keys in the code to do this. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 14:47:14 GMT
(we can pre enter, on D stock, that there are severe delays or minor delays or that a particular station is closed). Pre-entered announcements are triggered by the train at suitable predetermined junctures. How do you do this on a D stock? I thought it could only announce circle line problems, no other line, and only when the driver manually keys in the code to do this. There's a great long list of three digit codes that can be entered at any point in the journey. Then the DVA makes announcements at appropriate points. For example; F1 > 206 > Enter is severe delays on the Jubilee Line. Initially nothing happens, just a message on the cab screen to say that it has been stored. Then when approaching Westminster, just before the usual "Next station is Westminster, change for..." it will announce that there are severe delays on the Jubilee Line. And again at West Ham. For some reason this list of codes seems to be treated as a top secret document! |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2007 17:50:57 GMT
I agree with the majority. Between stations announce next stop and Rail / LUL / DLR interchanges ONLY. At station announce station name and train destination. For D stock (and future stocks) Door Chimes should NOT override announcements, but go together. (so you can announce "stand clear of the doors" as they begin to close) What he said  ;D ;D We also need the facillity to pre enter, that a line is suspended, part suspended or covered in part by rail replacement buses. (we can pre enter, on D stock, that there are severe delays or minor delays or that a particular station is closed). Pre-entered announcements are triggered by the train at suitable predetermined junctures. Indeed we can - but if you put in, say for example, 190 (planned engineering works Turnham Green to Richmond).......the train will still announce the Richmond interchange at Turnham Green  Similarly, bung in 499 (Cannon Street closed).........and when you leave Monument or Mansion House, it will still announce "The next station is Cannon Street...."  If only it would 'learn from what is being inputted. How do you do this on a D stock? I thought it could only announce circle line problems, no other line, and only when the driver manually keys in the code to do this. Providing you know the three digit numbers, you enter them in the same way as you would a "stand clear of the doors" message There's a great long list of three digit codes that can be entered at any point in the journey. Then the DVA makes announcements at appropriate points. For some reason this list of codes seems to be treated as a top secret document! I happened to stumble across a copy some time ago, and it is rather long..........and mainly useless! It doesn't cover much of what would be useful.....there are no closure messages for other lines, for example - but you can make it announce "due to the London Marathon, there may be some disruption to your journey today. Please see station posters for details". The other thing that really annoys me is the time delay on it. You ask it to say mind the doors (which is too many button presses anyway), and quite often you'll give up waiting for it and shut the doors anyway - guess what happens after you move off? Anyway, some useful codes?: - 179 - The District line is suspended Earls Court to Whitechapel (planned)
- 203 - Severe delays on the District line
- 303 - Minor delays on the District line
- 420 - Alight at Upton Park for West Ham football Club (very good on eastbound journeys - anounces prior to arrival at West Ham, Plaistow and Upton Park)
- 427 - Alight at the next station for Chelsea football club
- 499 - Cannon Street closed (still need to use 'station closed' button)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 20:20:40 GMT
For some reason this list of codes seems to be treated as a top secret document! I must be a good security risk, as a certain Upminster IO gave me a copy a while back. Unfortunatly as the list runs into many pages of A4 paper, I would need a second bag to carry it around with me. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 21:02:29 GMT
haha !
It does seem to be treated like a top secret list ! Though a few weeks back a stack of them were out with the other company literature at Upminster !
The list runs to 16 A4 pages ...but I always carry a copy, and a few other drivers have photocopied mine !
I belive the theory is that the Line Controller will announce the codes for drivers to enter ...but that just won't happen! They need to be re-entered for each trip.
Colin lists some of the most useful, I'd add to them
100 : The District Line has resumed service to all destinations (this one will announce immediately and also will remove any other pre-entered district line disruption messages)
209 : There are severe delays on the Piccadilly Line
come on ...this one is good ...the Pic is always playing up !
414 : There are severe delays to National Rail Services on the Fenchurch Street Line
not so useful
445 : Alight at the next station for the planned event in Walpole Park
....where is that ?
one we don't really want to hear
451 : Due to unforseen circumstances in Central London, there is severe disruption to all transport !
One we could enter daily
668: Shoreditch station is closed
as Colin says it's not clever enough to modify it's standard announcements so for closed District Line stations you still need to push "station closed" so the combined anouncements make sence.
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Post by happybunny on Sept 15, 2007 22:35:04 GMT
445 : Alight at the next station for the planned event in Walpole Park ....where is that ? one we don't really want to hear Ealing Broadway.. near the studios  Does anyone have a list of these codes they can PM me? Thanx |
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2007 23:53:09 GMT
Does anyone have a list of these codes they can PM me? Thanx The list runs to 16 A4 pages ... I dunno about anyone else, but I don't fancy typing that lot out - might I suggest you ask around in the depots seeing as the number of available copies of this document seem to be multiplying......... |
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Post by happybunny on Sept 16, 2007 9:18:27 GMT
Ok thanks, I thought someone may have an electronic or scanned copy. Ill ask around |
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Post by littlecog on Oct 21, 2007 3:01:22 GMT
haha ! The list runs to 16 A4 pages ...but I always carry a copy, and a few other drivers have photocopied mine ! I belive the theory is that the Line Controller will announce the codes for drivers to enter ...but that just won't happen! They need to be re-entered for each trip. Integrating the system that generates the very-elongated line status display at stations with a unified DVA as in-theory-useful as the above and updates the DVA at each station with current status, involves aerial pork, doesn't it? |
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 21, 2007 7:32:39 GMT
As NCC has it's finger on the pulse, or at least should have, I would've thought that with Connect it would've been viable for HQ Information to control the DVA announcements on all trains. It would be a question of linking the DVA to the radio system and passing coded information to it. I'm sure this could be done transparently in an available portion of each channel's bandwidth. No doubt it would fail spectacularly in the beginning as virtually all things non-safety do when first attempted!
I still remember the first multitrack tape recorders used to give 'Mind the Gap' announcements on platforms. It usually took about 7 to 10 days for the tape to stretch enough for the timing to be up the wall and the announcer to sound drunk but progress has followed over almost 30 years!
Brian
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Post by Colin on Oct 21, 2007 13:39:12 GMT
The 09ts on the Victoria line will have a DVA capable of being updated by automatically receiving service information from the line controller. So progress is afoot..........
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Post by happybunny on Oct 30, 2007 19:13:47 GMT
I used 179 at the Weekend it is quite useful.. I didn't have to lift the PA handset once!  ... it announces the closure (as far as I remember) before arriving at Ravenscourt Park, Hammersmith, Barons Ct, and Earls Ct! So they had no excuses for having a go at me at High St Also there is a "Inhabit Information" button on the menu. I was under the impression that with the system the LC or LIA could enter all relevant disruption codes onto a master unit at ECT, then when drivers set up the route before they start that trip they also select "Inhabit Information" and it somehow programs the codes from the master unit into the train. Is this possible and could it work? I had a pretty rubbishy DVA today. The connection to the battery must have been poor because whenever I went over a rail gap the system shut down and re-started when back on juice. Very annoying as each time that happened the destination was wiped off the front and announcements stopped so was always re-programming it :@ grr. I was tempted to get rectangle card advertising thingy from the car and write on the back TOWER HILL and shove it in the windscreen |
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Post by Colin on Oct 30, 2007 23:36:34 GMT
Also there is a "Inhabit Information" button on the menu. I was under the impression that with the system the LC or LIA could enter all relevant disruption codes onto a master unit at ECT, then when drivers set up the route before they start that trip they also select "Inhabit Information" and it somehow programs the codes from the master unit into the train. Is this possible and could it work? You mean 'Inhibit Information'! Your impression is way out I'm afraid - the 'Inhibit Information' option is for use by the driver when they don't want the DVA or display screens to show anything. This option is [officially] only intended for use if it was realised a wrong route had been set up, and is to allow for the train op to re-set it up when it's convenient. The option does have it's use though, as I found out last new years eve when both Embankment and Westminster were closed (scheduled) - as you know, the D stock can only skip one station, not two on the bounce ;D ;D They only input the Line Controller has with regard to the DVA is that they are supposed to tell the drivers when to use certain codes as per disruption on other lines................ |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 23:37:24 GMT
The "Inhibit Information" option (note the I, not A!) just clears all the screens inside and out. It's a quick way of stopping the train showing incorrect info when you've just been told to change destination.
179 is good but it does not mention the Circle Line closure so I still make a couple of PAs myself, particularly to encourage people to change at Hammersmith. It may be obvious to us that if there's no District through the city then that must apply to the Circle, but I'm always concerned that some passengers will just think "that's OK, I'll take the yellow line from High Street".
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Post by happybunny on Nov 1, 2007 16:39:45 GMT
Oh I see hehe, silly me ! thanks guys |
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Post by Alight on Dec 23, 2007 20:29:02 GMT
*I think the Jubilee Line has a good short and sweet example of how a DMI should work.
*I think they should cut out random alights such as "The Royal National Institute of the blind" or "University College hospital" because many of the tourists really dont need to know as they are hardly tourist attractions. Its as if they are doing it for the sake of having an alight. I think the Victoria Line from last time I went on has actually got rid of the latter however the former at KCSP is still there!
*Finally I think "Let customers off the train first please" is one of the most pointless as the people who this applies to are on the platform!!
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Post by Alight on Dec 27, 2007 18:29:34 GMT
The Northern Line has quite a problem. It does the opposite to the Docklands Light Railway.
It says for example "the next station is KXSP" and then does not continue to announce the interchanges.
And then at the station it starts listing everything such as all the platforms at Camden Town, when by that time we're all off!
Pointless if you ask me!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2007 22:17:36 GMT
The Northern Line has quite a problem. It says for example "the next station is KXSP" and then does not continue to announce the interchanges. there were some 95TS that didn't have Celia as the DVA, so basically it would be- "The next station is Moorgate, change for" etc |
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Post by edwin on Dec 30, 2007 3:16:28 GMT
It makes sense to have the announcements as the train arrives into the station, not between stations and then once the doors have opened. If it's busy then by the time the DVA has listed all the interchanges etc. then you should be trying to force your way through the crowd or off the train altogether!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2007 7:26:52 GMT
Indeed.
Charing Cross. Please change here for the Bakerloo Line. Charing Cross. This is a Northern Line train for Kennington. Please mind the gap.
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Post by Alight on Dec 30, 2007 17:06:23 GMT
The Northern Line has quite a problem. It says for example "the next station is KXSP" and then does not continue to announce the interchanges. there were some 95TS that didn't have Celia as the DVA, so basically it would be- "The next station is Moorgate, change for" etc Whod did they have before then? And when was Celia introduced because I know she sounds nothing like the Celia on the Jub? I think one thing the Northern Line should drop is the "Main Line and suburban rail services" and additionally all the rubbish at Euston which could more simply be "Change for Northern Line services to other destinations" |
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;D ;D
Similarly, bung in 499 (Cannon Street closed).........and when you leave Monument or Mansion House, it will still announce "The next station is Cannon Street...." 
... it announces the closure (as far as I remember) before arriving at Ravenscourt Park, Hammersmith, Barons Ct, and Earls Ct! So they had no excuses for having a go at me at High St 
