metman
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Post by metman on Apr 20, 2008 23:53:54 GMT
It came to me recently when looking at Sarah Siddons at Acton, that she has a Westinghouse brake and the vac brakes. How often to the current trains use their westinghouse brakes? I know A60/62, C69/77 and 67/72ts have Westinghouse brakes and I think the 73ts have the Westcode brake?
Where is the brake handle located? I think the A stock one is combined with the EP handle, but what about the others-its not on the TBC is it?
Cheers
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Post by chrish on Apr 21, 2008 0:19:45 GMT
On the C stock it is on the TBC. The braking positions you have are Rheo 1 & Hold, Rheo2 Min, Nor and Max (so 4 EP braking positions in total), after which you have Lap and service application which are your 2 Westinghouse positions.
I assume this is the same on the 72 stock as well, seeing as they cabs are very similar. Not sure on the 67.. never looked for it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 1:42:42 GMT
I assume this is the same on the 72 stock as well, seeing as they cabs are very similar. Yep, the 72's are identical. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 8:59:46 GMT
How often to the current trains use their westinghouse brakes? As often as the driver feels like it! Should be at least once per trip, might be every station. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 21, 2008 10:03:42 GMT
Cheers! Do the D78 and 83ts have a similar arrangement?
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Post by tubeprune on Apr 21, 2008 10:17:36 GMT
How often to the current trains use their westinghouse brakes? As often as the driver feels like it! Should be at least once per trip, might be every station. I think I mentioned in an earlier thread I used to do at least one Circle a day using Westinghouse just to break up the monotony. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 10:51:54 GMT
Cheers! Do the D78 and 83ts have a similar arrangement? D stock and 83 stock TBC's are identical, if that's what you are asking. The braking system is different in that the D stock braking is Westcode and the 83 was Analogue. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 21, 2008 13:10:07 GMT
Right ok, so the picc and district both have the Westcode system-I guess it's better than the Westinghouse system?
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Post by chrish on Apr 21, 2008 13:28:47 GMT
Right ok, so the picc and district both have the Westcode system-I guess it's better than the Westinghouse system? You'd have to define better for me to answer that! I personally use the Westinghouse more than the EP on a c stock. The Westinghouse is a smoother brake on most of them I find. As for comparing it to westcode, the only advantage is you can drop the handle a lot more subtly with westcode.. no air goes flying out! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 17:24:06 GMT
On the C stock it is on the TBC. The braking positions you have are Rheo 1 & Hold, Rheo2 Min, Nor and Max (so 4 EP braking positions in total), after which you have Lap and service application which are your 2 Westinghouse positions. I assume this is the same on the 72 stock as well, seeing as they cabs are very similar. Not sure on the 67.. never looked for it! So to get round to the Westinghouse positions you have to have the train using the Rheostatic brakes too? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 21, 2008 17:52:30 GMT
Nope! You have to be fairly quick, but providing you go straight from 'Off & Release' to 'Lap' or 'Service application', the EP brake will not apply. Main diffence between Westinghouse & Westcode? Westinghouse is a pure air only brake, where as Westcode is based on electrical circuits [but uses air to actually apply the brakes]. I'll leave the more technical stuff to someone else  ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 18:11:34 GMT
The difference between the systems essentially is that the Westcode has the Round Train Circuit for the failsafe brake whilst the Westinghouse air brake had an air pipe for the failsafe brake.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 19:02:07 GMT
As often as the driver feels like it! Should be at least once per trip, might be every station. I think I mentioned in an earlier thread I used to do at least one Circle a day using Westinghouse just to break up the monotony. Indeed. I used to do exactly the same thing. The only thing you had to watch when using the Westinghouse station after station on 59s/72s was that the Auxiliary Reservoirs had a chance to properly recharge. On short inter-station runs through town with short dwell times, this could sometimes cause some "interesting" braking characteristics after a few stations.  There a few things as satisfying (at work) as stopping a fully loaded train on the button with a few puffs of Westinghouse. ;D |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Apr 21, 2008 21:38:05 GMT
There a few things as satisfying (at work) as stopping a fully loaded train on the button with a few puffs of Westinghouse. ;D but was this 'pure' or, as some have been known to do, use the rheo to get a partial release (the one thing Westinghouse couldn't do)? A 'pure' westinghouse stop is indeed a joy to behold. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2008 22:02:01 GMT
but was this 'pure' or, as some have been known to do, use the rheo to get a partial release ? That would be cheating! I certainly don't let my trainees use it like that. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 22, 2008 16:43:50 GMT
but was this 'pure' or, as some have been known to do, use the rheo to get a partial release (the one thing Westinghouse couldn't do)? I wouldn't let Solidbond catch you saying that! ;D ;D ;D He can explain much better than I - it isn't possible to get a partial release using the EP  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2008 19:17:23 GMT
There a few things as satisfying (at work) as stopping a fully loaded train on the button with a few puffs of Westinghouse. ;D but was this 'pure' or, as some have been known to do, use the rheo to get a partial release (the one thing Westinghouse couldn't do)? A 'pure' westinghouse stop is indeed a joy to behold.[/quote Certainly not!  As adw said, it's cheating. You can partially release the Westinghouse be going to off & release and back to lap. It's not a good idea though as the auxiliary reservoirs haven't been recharged and should a further application be needed, you invariably find that it's a weak or slow application. "Mixing your airs" - Going to an EP position after applying Westinghouse is frowned upon and can cause brakes to "hang on" requiring a blowdown/shutdown. ttr |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 23, 2008 0:02:17 GMT
I'm trying to remember the last time I heard a westinghouse application on an A stock! Is the noise a low and quite scary hiss?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Apr 23, 2008 16:14:42 GMT
Often there was an application at Hillingdon when bound for Uxbridge. Its a lovely noise There used to be a rule that the westinghouse had to be used at least once a trip and always at the station before the terminus of the service. (I think thats right...?). Hillingdon thus stands a good chance of being a place to observe it. (With the Chesham shuttle it was once every hour, iirc) |
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Post by Chris M on Apr 23, 2008 16:20:10 GMT
I think I've read on here somewhere that Circle Line trains are required to use Westinghouse at Euston Square as there isn't a station before the terminus.
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Post by c5 on Apr 23, 2008 16:23:26 GMT
I think I've read on here somewhere that Circle Line trains are required to use Westinghouse at Euston Square as there isn't a station before the terminus. That's correct! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 16:35:16 GMT
There a few things as satisfying (at work) as stopping a fully loaded train on the button with a few puffs of Westinghouse. ;D Sign me up for a sad so-and-so too as I always liked doing this on the 72s. The only thing to watch when picking up a new train would be to try the Westinghouse between stations first, as some drivers never use it (even though they should) it can get a bit gunged up and be slow to apply (in service application that is, emergency would be fine), using it a few times usually clears that up! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 18:21:05 GMT
There a few things as satisfying (at work) as stopping a fully loaded train on the button with a few puffs of Westinghouse. ;D Sign me up for a sad so-and-so too as I always liked doing this on the 72s. The only thing to watch when picking up a new train would be to try the Westinghouse between stations first, as some drivers never use it (even though they should) it can get a bit gunged up and be slow to apply (in service application that is, emergency would be fine), using it a few times usually clears that up! I thought the only positions you used were Parallel and Emergency (runs for cover) ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 18:26:30 GMT
I'm trying to remember the last time I heard a westinghouse application on an A stock! Is the noise a low and quite scary hiss? That sounds more like Emergency. You'll only really hear the sound of a Westyhoose application if you're in the leading car - usually (as has been said) at the station before a terminus. It's a hard sound to describe. It's a bit like the sound that gas makes coming from the cooker hob before you light it   |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 23, 2008 18:50:40 GMT
Like the noise of a gas leak?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 19:02:22 GMT
Like the noise of a gas leak? I guess so. If you think about it that's effectively what it is. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 23, 2008 19:36:49 GMT
I thought so-that's what I was trying to get accross! Used to hear it coming into Finchley Road southbound!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2008 18:38:51 GMT
Sign me up for a sad so-and-so too as I always liked doing this on the 72s. The only thing to watch when picking up a new train would be to try the Westinghouse between stations first, as some drivers never use it (even though they should) it can get a bit gunged up and be slow to apply (in service application that is, emergency would be fine), using it a few times usually clears that up! I thought the only positions you used were Parallel and Emergency (runs for cover) ;D ;D You cheeky boy |
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;D ;D
As adw said, it's cheating.
