prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 8, 2007 18:56:33 GMT
Staff on this site will be well aware of the fact that I want to get drivers more involved in the design of their new office. Whilst we can't design a train by commitee I do realise that most of you feel a bit left out of the process. I also realise that the involvement of your rep's doesn't always meet your expectations in getting involved either, indeed some of you may not even be in a Union (shame on you!  ). To that end I have arranged for a prototype seat rig to be brought down from Derby and my boss has agreed to fund some posters/backdrops to provide up to date information on the train design. I am planning to get out to every SSR depot (with the TOM's permission) and get you guys in the 'hot seat' as it were. I see it as an opportunity to get you guys a bit more involved and also as a way to give you accurate and up to date information. At the end of the 'roadshow' we will feed back your viewpoints to Bombardier and ask them to take your opinions on board as the design goes forward (obviously I can't make any bold promises, so don't ask for a sunroof!!). I told adw in another thread that I am convinced this design is good and so I am going to put my neck on the line and come out and try and prove it!  As soon as I have more information I will update you (I sound like I'm doing a 'PA'!!). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2007 22:33:47 GMT
I told adw in another thread that I am convinced this design is good and so I am going to put my neck on the line and come out and try and prove it! I look forward to seeing it, and I'm sure I'll plenty to say about it! So can we expect an update every 3 minutes? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 9, 2007 0:51:31 GMT
Will it have fine wires poking through after a few months, like the refurb D's are starting to have happen (wasn't that a prjb job? ;D ;D)? While I'm here and we're talking cabs; any news on the J door gap issue on the refurb D's - and will the same issue be likely with the S? P.S. - sorry to 'Hijack' an S stock thread with D stock stuff......though I somehow think it'd be wise to avoid repeating a potential issue on the S. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Nov 9, 2007 19:33:10 GMT
Everyone who reads this forum will need to give prjb the best possible support in this courageous mission. Seat comfort is a very personal thing and for 100 people sitting in the seat, he's get at least 150 different opinions.
I tried the Central line simulator yesterday and thought the seat was awful, but my colleague said it was nothing to do with the seat; my shape was the problem!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2007 20:35:12 GMT
Very much looking forward to registering my opinions upon this, I spend an eternity getting seats comfortable as it is.
Seat roadshow needs to have seat in context of the handle and consol positions.
Unrefurbished D stock seats are lovely, until you realise they don't get close enough to the handle and when close enough to the handle there is no foot room !
Plenty of padding too ... some long runs on SSR ;D ;D ;D
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 9, 2007 20:37:45 GMT
And don't forget the passengers too-there are some long runs on SSR!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 9, 2007 22:46:21 GMT
Will it have fine wires poking through after a few months, like the refurb D's are starting to have happen (wasn't that a prjb job? ;D ;D)? Ahem!  Yes, fair point. I get a 50/50 hit rate with the 'D' Stock seat, which i consider to be a failure in all honesty. Hence why I really do want to try and make this one better. While I'm here and we're talking cabs; any news on the J door gap issue on the refurb D's - and will the same issue be likely with the S? This is on going and won't happen overnight, but it hasn't gone away and is still firmly on the agenda. I will chase up the various parties and find out exactly where we are next week. P.S. - sorry to 'Hijack' an S stock thread with D stock stuff......though I somehow think it'd be wise to avoid repeating a potential issue on the S. Fine by me.  |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 9, 2007 22:47:51 GMT
And don't forget the passengers too-there are some long runs on SSR! We recently carried out some seat trials at 55 Broadway and had well over 500 people sit and give their opinions on three different types of seat. The saloon mock up (due in early 08) will also serve to ensure that the seats are optimised. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 9, 2007 22:56:37 GMT
Everyone who reads this forum will need to give prjb the best possible support in this courageous mission. Seat comfort is a very personal thing and for 100 people sitting in the seat, he's get at least 150 different opinions. I tried the Central line simulator yesterday and thought the seat was awful, but my colleague said it was nothing to do with the seat; my shape was the problem!!! Thanks 100andthirty! The seat roadshow will put more emphasis on adjustment and usability rather than outright comfort. This is for two reasons, firstly most drivers will not have the time or be willing to sit in the seat for any great length of time which means we wouldn't be able to assess comfort over a realistic time frame, secondly because BTUK are going to carry out comfort trials on a test group who will stay in the seat for longer periods. The main thing for me is to try and ensure that drivers get a say, which is why I have insisted that the seat roadshow occurs before or at the same time as BTUK's more controlled testing. This way they cannot say "Oh sorry, it's too late". In fairness to BTUK they are backing our request to let drivers get involved and do see the importance of doing this type of thing. I think that most drivers will just appreciate a bit more information on the cab from the project team, rather than hearing rumours or seeing unofficial photo's of out of date designs on noticeboards. Wish me luck!  Seat issues aside, the Central line simulator is rather good isn't it? |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 9, 2007 23:02:16 GMT
Seat roadshow needs to have seat in context of the handle and consol positions. Unrefurbished D stock seats are lovely, until you realise they don't get close enough to the handle and when close enough to the handle there is no foot room ! This is a fair point, but we are not going to be able to bring down a more advanced mock up with controls etc. The rig will include a seat and the associated footrest (which will be adjustable). The ergonomics of the cab have been through rigorous assessments and all controls have to be within the reach envelope for 5th percentile females through to 95th percentile males. So there will need to be an element of trust on your part that we will be ensuring that other controls will be within that reach envelope. Plenty of padding too ... some long runs on SSR ;D ;D ;D I know!  |
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Nov 9, 2007 23:40:15 GMT
The ergonomics of the cab have been through rigorous assessments and all controls have to be within the reach envelope for 5th percentile females through to 95th percentile males. So there will need to be an element of trust on your part that we will be ensuring that other controls will be within that reach envelope. So it won't cater for one of our Upminster I/O's then? At 6ft 8ins I think he is a tad outside even the 95th percentile mark ;D ;D ;D |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 10, 2007 10:15:22 GMT
At that size I'd be surprised if he could physically fit in a tube stock cab!
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Post by Chris W on Nov 10, 2007 20:21:19 GMT
That'll be where the request for a S-stock sunroof will be coming from ;D ;D ;D Sorry prjb... couldn't resist that one  |
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Post by 100andthirty on Nov 11, 2007 16:53:32 GMT
Sunroofs are so............... '90's. Air con is all the rage.
And instead of sat-nav, we've decided to automate driving instead so trains find their own way!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 22:08:09 GMT
Sunroofs are so............... '90's. Air con is all the rage. And instead of sat-nav, we've decided to automate driving instead so trains find their own way!!!!!!!!!!! Forget Air Con ...I'm always cold !! The efficiency of the heaters is of greater interest to me ... ...in which regard, the offside passive heater on a refurb D stock is located such that it warms the seat back of the Instructors Seat (more by coincidence than design) however this is superb. With the same passive heaters working I am far more comfy (warm) in the I/Ops seat on a refurb than a non ! ;D ;D |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 22, 2007 22:15:22 GMT
Just to update everyone, the roadshow will now take place in the new year. Following a meeting today I do not consider the proposed seat satisfactory and am not prepared to put my name to it/show it to LU staff. MRSSL and BTUK have taken the decision to make some alterations based on LU comments and come back to us with a revised seat in December. They (BTUK/MRSSL) could have pushed ahead but they actually listened and decided to take LU comments on board. So whilst I know it is a bit disappointing (it is for me anyway) the bottom line is we are trying to get them to get it right before seeking drivers comments. Sorry!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2007 22:30:52 GMT
Better right and late than wrong and early ! Thanks for the update PRJB !
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Post by happybunny on Dec 17, 2007 12:11:51 GMT
Can we have a leather drivers seat with a high back please?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 22:32:42 GMT
Can we have a leather drivers seat with a high back please? No, that should be the instructor's seat. |
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Post by c5 on Dec 17, 2007 23:07:16 GMT
Can we have a leather drivers seat with a high back please? No, that should be the instructor's seat. or underseat heating. Turn it on one day and don't tell the person! They'll think they're going mad! ;D ;D ;D |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Dec 19, 2007 20:46:20 GMT
No, that should be the instructor's seat. or underseat heating. Turn it on one day and don't tell the person! They'll think they're going mad! ;D ;D ;D Erm, no?!! ;D On a more serious note, the seat issue is moving forward and is only being delayed by the Christmas holidays. We have narrowed down the type of seat base to two options and once a final decision has been made then the seat can commence trials. Realistically I anticipate that I will be around to see you (staff that is! ) some time in February. I know it's getting pushed back but I really do want to get this one right and show you something that is actually worth seeing (or sitting on, as the case may be! ). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 21:25:25 GMT
I look forward to seeing this, but I won't hold my breath as even if you do get as far as Upminster, I'm sure you will have gone home well before I book on.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jan 4, 2008 23:17:15 GMT
I will get to Upminster, I promise! Nearer the time I will drop you a pm and find out when your on and what your book on times are like and do my best to ensure you get to see it. If I can't make time for an old mate then what is the world coming to?!! |
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Post by william on Jan 5, 2008 16:57:58 GMT
I will get to Upminster, I promise! Nearer the time I will drop you a pm and find out when your on and what your book on times are like and do my best to ensure you get to see it. If I can't make time for an old mate then what is the world coming to?!! As you are going to PM this member anyway, why tell us all? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2008 14:18:51 GMT
I will get to Upminster, I promise! Nearer the time I will drop you a pm and find out when your on and what your book on times are like and do my best to ensure you get to see it. If I can't make time for an old mate then what is the world coming to?!! Thanks, much appreciated |
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Post by william on Jan 10, 2008 21:05:26 GMT
Groan…......! Yep, thanks for the reply, we were all waiting with baited breath for that I'm sure.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 11, 2008 0:13:50 GMT
Hadn't noticed before, but as I have now, I'll pass comment:
The last part of the discussion is between two LUL staff members, and they are discussing something that is internal and therefore not open to the public at large.
Whilst it is perhaps slightly inappropriate to discuss the sending of PM's on such a subject in a public thread, it is equally useful for other LUL staff concerned with the subject to see that prjb is making every effort to ensure all relevant LUL staff are welcome to take part no matter what shift they're on. If this encourages further LUL staff PM contact with prjb, then I think it is more than justified.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 11, 2008 11:14:45 GMT
As the original question was asked in public I feel it is right that prjb responded likewise - even if just to say that he's responding in private. This means that some other well-meaning user doesn't unnecessarily PM him giving a heads-up to the thread - prjb (like everyone here) is human and can innocently miss threads.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jan 11, 2008 21:38:50 GMT
Hey Guys (in particular Bill), I wasn't ignoring or evading the question - I just didn't see it! Part of the problem is that, as some of you are aware, I have been having monumental 'PC' problems of late. I have cured this by dumping my less than 2 year old computer and replacing it with an iMac (which will please V3.1 no end!!). Anyway, the roadshow itself will be widely publicised nearer the time and all LU staff will get to find out when and where it will take place by recognised means (Team Talk, OTM, noticeboards etc). I responded to Jim by saying I would 'PM' him because he indicated that he worked extreme shifts and I wanted to ensure that he got a chance to see it as he expressed an interest. I didn't mean to cause any upset!
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Post by signalfailure on Jan 20, 2008 23:49:47 GMT
Hi mate.
Any chance of telling me where abouts we have got so far.
Technicians are not drivers and i dont think they would know whats its like to drive a train, more information should be considered from DRIVERS.
Also my friend (senior met line T/Op) said being that over 90 percent of train operators are right handed its useless having left handed CTBC.
Any latest photos of videos of the S stock cab and train would be greaful.
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).
Yes, fair point. I get a 50/50 hit rate with the 'D' Stock seat, which i consider to be a failure in all honesty. Hence why I really do want to try and make this one better.
