prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 9, 2006 23:28:34 GMT
Here is the latest computer generated image:  Hope you like it! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2006 23:51:50 GMT
As far as I can see from that - there is an external display on the outside of the train between the middle and last set of doors?
The external display may be handy for the Vic as its all Underground - but surely it would make more sense for it to be in the windows as on the D stock refurb due to vandals on the line possibly smashing the displays?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 0:04:39 GMT
Thanks for that, prjb.
Personally I can't see a problem with the destination display on the outside. But is it only one line? Could do with showing destination and line, like the one on the front.
Is there a reason why the area around the headlights is painted grey? I think it would look better painted red.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 0:08:36 GMT
Just picked up one of the brochures at Upminster where that photo came from spoiled by a pic of the manky Earls Court Control room. I suspect the trains will differ from that image. I remember pics of the 92 stock looked different to what was produced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 0:52:45 GMT
Thanks for that, prjb. Is there a reason why the area around the headlights is painted grey? I think it would look better painted red. Personally I like the grey on the front. Even more so because all '90's stock has it and this will make LU stock look more similar across all lines. Don't you agree that is desirable? What does look odd is the colour of the roof though. The grey roof extends all the way down to the doors where I think a band of white above the doors would look better. I like the more round/curved cab. Looks better than present (sub)surface stock which looks a bit like someone just sliced a train in two with a knife and made a cab in the front part. This 'roundness' accentuates the fact it's front of the train. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 16:40:06 GMT
but they can have the curvy cabs because there won't be any cab to cab coupling.
I do like the look of it though, the display on the front is very big which is excellent.
but are the angular deeper windows on the doors gone? they looked very good and distinctive.
it definitely looks like an LU train!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 19:03:51 GMT
Looks quite like the 'fronts' on the 5-WES units out of Waterloo...
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 10, 2006 21:32:35 GMT
Previous designs of the S-Stock front I must say looked quite fierce and insect-like - I remember someone commented that it looked like a fly! especially seeing the tiny clusters of LEDs that resemble the exterior of a fly's eye
It's great that this has been modified as this would give the Underground a more attractive image - whilst in theme parks it is 'cool' to have a special theme related to the park, which influences the design of the lights, the bodywork etc of the roller coaster and some transport vehicles; the Underground serves a whole population, not just a few million visitors a year, so making the appearance more 'friendly' is a good idea.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 21:03:52 GMT
The external display may be handy for the Vic as its all Underground - but surely it would make more sense for it to be in the windows as on the D stock refurb due to vandals on the line possibly smashing the displays? The 'D' stock had them fitted to the windows as a retro fit but 'S' will feature them as part of the integral body side design. We are trying to keep the windows big and as unobscured as possible on 'S'. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 21:05:56 GMT
But is it only one line? Could do with showing destination and line, like the one on the front. It is one line but I believe it will scroll. Is there a reason why the area around the headlights is painted grey? I think it would look better painted red. I think it is just a question of their design, the 09ts has a similar appearance. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 21:09:04 GMT
What does look odd is the colour of the roof though. The grey roof extends all the way down to the doors where I think a band of white above the doors would look better. I agree actually. The design is still 'emerging' and I am sure a distinction between roof and body side will feature as we move on through the process. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 21:11:49 GMT
Previous designs of the S-Stock front I must say looked quite fierce and insect-like - I remember someone commented that it looked like a fly! When previous 'S' Stock images appeared, I did say that the only reason it looked like a fly was because BTUK (Bombardier) had not added internal details to the cab. This version has a see- through appearance for the cab but still lacks internal details. This is because the cab design is still very much ongoing. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 21:14:23 GMT
but are the angular deeper windows on the doors gone? they looked very good and distinctive. Yes, they are gone in favour of a more conventional and maintenance friendly design. The angular door windows were part of BTUK's original bid design. I had mixed emotions about them to be honest, they looked good but didn't look LU to me. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 11, 2006 22:50:10 GMT
I have a copy of the latest 'Newsline' too - I haven't read it in detail yet, but having 'skim read' it, I feel a few negative comments heading towards the upgrade team's email inbox    Just one question regarding the image above: there are two lights below the main cluster - what are they for? |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 11, 2006 23:09:09 GMT
When prjb first got hold of this, he mentioned to me that there were a couple (or so..) of things which our more eagle-eyed members would call 'mistakes' ( and indeed they would be if this was a train in service in the current timetable)
So, c'mon folks: as well as just ogling, point out what inconsistencies the illustrator has included!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2006 23:17:59 GMT
[pedant] train number as 444... [/pedant]
a rather clean [and unnamed station]
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 11, 2006 23:19:54 GMT
The lack of the flanges above the doors to deflect rain?
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 11, 2006 23:21:28 GMT
Not pedant.
So - what about the train number? And that's linked to your second statement: the station is CLEARLY identifiable if you know it.
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Post by compsci on Nov 11, 2006 23:24:42 GMT
I'm assuming that the station is supposed to be Notting Hill Gate. If that's the case what is a Hammersmith & City train doing there?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 11, 2006 23:31:28 GMT
So, c'mon folks: as well as just ogling, point out what inconsistencies the illustrator has included!! The train number, 444 is not a Hammersmith & City number - if it does exist, it would belong on the Met. I suspect the lights I mentioned earlier is another. The outside door cock is too high. There's no Connect aerial. There's no white bits near the doors, breaking the blue band. Ermmm........... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2006 23:34:42 GMT
I'm assuming that the station is supposed to be Notting Hill Gate. If that's the case what is a Hammersmith & City train doing there? I think it's Paddington (Praed Street) but the principle's the same - but will there still be a Hammersmith and City line when this stock goes into service? |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 23:41:04 GMT
I have a copy of the latest 'Newsline' too - I haven't read it in detail yet, but having 'skim read' it, I feel a few negative comments heading towards the upgrade team's email inbox Just one question regarding the image above: there are two lights below the main cluster - what are they for? I look forward to your comments, thanks mate. The lights in question are detrainment lights which illuminate when the 'M' door is operated. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 11, 2006 23:43:52 GMT
I'm not going to get too involved in the quiz so as not to spoil the fun, but just to confirm the station is Notting Hill Gate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2006 23:47:32 GMT
Definately got the 'Ambience' Target met with that one!!!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 12, 2006 9:41:02 GMT
Ok, Phil has asked me to clarify a few points for you: The white RVAR door strips are present, you just can't see them very well from this angle. There is a connect radio aerial just above the 'M' door. The outside door cock (Butterfly) is at the correct height and is situated adjacent to the roundel. It has a cover to discourage tampering. There are four mistakes, three are obvious and one not so obvious. So far you have got: 1. Train number 444 (a Met designation). 2. 'T' Cup issues aside, a H&C train at Notting Hill Gate. 3.  4. I will give you some hints if your really stuck!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2006 9:52:15 GMT
Is it me or can I not see anything in the cab?!
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Post by compsci on Nov 12, 2006 9:58:21 GMT
There appear to be buttons on each door. Are these being included on the S stock considering that they're being removed on the D stock refurbs?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 12, 2006 17:26:18 GMT
The white RVAR door strips are present, you just can't see them very well from this angle. There is a connect radio aerial just above the 'M' door. Having looked at the 'Newsline' image, those are blindingly obvious ;D ;D ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2006 18:08:29 GMT
Is it me or are the saloon grab poles all different colours?
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 12, 2006 20:39:04 GMT
There appear to be buttons on each door. Are these being included on the S stock considering that they're being removed on the D stock refurbs?
It has been a back-and-forth debate for a while. The D-Stock is the first train in Britain I know of ever to have passenger operated automatic doors; though I don't see why it should have been put on a busy Underground train before any of the more lightly loaded ones across what is now Network Rail!
Because much of the District Line is in the open I assume that was the main reason for its inclusion (unless the Tube wanted to show any innovation that is now perceived to be a folly). This certainly would never have happened on the Circle as most of it is busy and nearly all of it is underground.
The Berlin and Paris underground lines have 30 to 40 year old trains with customer open fitted when new (although an interesting lever-operated system rather than buttons), especially in Berlin because it is very cold at winter times there.
Customer Open buttons were fitted to the 1938 TS when they moved to the Isle of Wight. This decision was probably taken because there are much fewer passengers so there was no need to have all the doors open all the time at stations.
If the 1938 TS had this done, the Met should logically have had Customer Open retrofitted on the A-Stock due to very much of the line being in the open too (and lighter loadings far away from the central area).
Heavy loadings in the central area between Baker Street and Aldgate must have dis-permitted this.
If you look on the thread 'A thought over door control', it can be clear from many of the staff posts that there is no intention in the near future of reinstating customer open.
The D-Stock are having their buttons removed, but the Waterloo & City Line trains of 1992 stock still have their open AND close buttons in the refurbs (though not operational) despite the line being completely underground and always busy.
Neither have the 1995 and 1996 TS lost their buttons. Taking them out of service (so reducing the number of services) to have the buttons removed would be time-consuming and probably time wasting as a task on its own.
Some recent images of the S-Stock interiors still feature the customer open buttons (see SSR Upgrade Newsline) in case they are required at a later stage of design, but the S-Stock is not likely at all to have this feature.
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