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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 2:15:17 GMT
Hello! Thought I'd bring this up as it could prove an interesting debate. Currently, the District & Circle have separate rolling stock, allowing pax to be able to differentiate between a D and a C stock train. When the S stock is on the track - the only differentiation will be possibly seen by looking at the next train display on the platform. Now if you're in a rush and just get on the train - it would probably be handy to announce what LINE and what destination it is for, similar to the current C stock when they announce TRTS... "This is a District Line service to Wimbledon, this train is now ready to depart, please stand clear of the doors", and also when they say where the train is terminating. Now the S stock will stop the easy differentiation, so will the DVA on the S stock reflect the stock changes and announce "This is a Metropolitan Line train to Amersham" rather than "This train terminates at Amersham" (yes, I know it's blindingly obvious that it's a Met but that isn't the point.  ). This would be awfully handy on the parts of the line with a service every few minutes - meaning that when you board the train you hear a confirmation that the train is for that line and for X station. I'm bringing this up because the 95 and 96TS both just say "This train terminates at..." Is there any definitive answer as of yet?  Tom |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 7, 2006 9:22:16 GMT
The D stock also announces the line - at all times The D stock's external displays on the car sides alternate between "District" and the trains destination. Infact the D stock (and C stock too incidentally) announce "this is a District line train to............" - NOT "this train terminates at............". Only the 90's series stocks seem to use the "terminates" description. |
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 7, 2006 10:51:49 GMT
Hello! Currently, the District & Circle have separate rolling stock, allowing pax to be able to differentiate between a D and a C stock train. My experience is that most punters don't know one train from another. Even when the train is moving, they can't tell which is the front! Most of them think the D Stock refurb is a new train. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 15:27:37 GMT
Most of them think the D Stock refurb is a new train. Too right. Two old biddies got on my refurb train a few weeks back and one said to the other "These new ones are a lot easier to get on than the old ones" ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 17:37:58 GMT
Most of them think the D Stock refurb is a new train. Too right. Two old biddies got on my refurb train a few weeks back and one said to the other "These new ones are a lot easier to get on than the old ones" ;D What the punters don't know can't hurt LUL..... |
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 7, 2006 17:47:37 GMT
Most of them [passengers] think the D Stock refurb is a new train.
Too right. Two old biddies got on my refurb train a few weeks back and one said to the other "These new ones are a lot easier to get on than the old ones" ;D
Bombardier must be congratulated on the standard to which they have refurbished the D-Stock (and also LU for choosing the right décor and fittings) – it is true that they look immensely different inside compared to those in original condition. The refurbs put the unrefurbs to shame!
The interiors of the refurbs are by far the best on the Underground (not just because they are new; the design of the new interior is superior to that of the older subsurface stock).
Compare the old wooden flooring, out-of-date orange and brown moquette, and dull, dirt-showing exterior of the unrefurbs with the flashy plastic floors and walls, more vibrant colour for the seat cushions, new smooth and modern end windows, and the smart corporate livery on the refurbs.
The only disappointment to button pushers is the removal of the customer open facility (which as has been explained elsewhere on the site, causes more trouble than it solves on the Underground due to increase in dwell times) but now they are not operational on the non-refurbs anyway. If people want something to press they can do that on Network Rail on their way in.
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Post by bwhughes on Nov 7, 2006 17:51:03 GMT
Why not have huge dot matrix bars along the sides of the S-Stock carriages between the limits of where the doors open? The LEDs could all be illuminated to show the colour of the line the train is running on, and give the name of the line (and the destination) in large letters.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 18:02:21 GMT
People have discussed the use of LED matrices on the train fronts/sides/doors/destination indicators/etc. as ways to differentiate the various types of trains. Doing so though would require a great deal of DDA- and RVA-related studies to ensure that anything chosen is as visible as possible to everybody - and not just those with poor eyesight.
After all, LU probably doesn't want staff to be abused by punters customers because the latter hopped on the wrong train...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 20:26:54 GMT
Currently, the District & Circle have separate rolling stock, allowing pax to be able to differentiate between a D and a C stock train. This is a classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing! Many passengers do know the difference between C and D stocks, but this causes problems when C stock trains are diverted, as passengers jump on a C stock at Earls Court without looking at the destination because it "must" be going to Wimbledon and are rather perplexed when they arrive at, say, Olympia! Or at South Ken it "must" be a Circle, so they aren't happy when they get to Earls Court! Personally I think having one stock will be a good thing if it makes people actually open their eyes/ears and check where the train is going. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 7, 2006 20:43:46 GMT
One would imagine that in such situations when C stock is diverted, the driver would make a special announcement to that effect?
As for the DVA as a whole - the new Picc DVA apparently has a "peak/offpeak" mode and during the peak the announcements omit the "touristy" information.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 20:48:04 GMT
One would imagine that in such situations when C stock is diverted, the driver would make a special announcement to that effect? Having never been on a C stock that has been diverted, I don't know if they make any special announcements per se - I would expect them to simply state that this train will be terminating somewhere else. As for the DVA as a whole - the new Picc DVA apparently has a "peak/offpeak" mode and during the peak the announcements omit the "touristy" information. Oh good! The District DVA is so pedantic and long winded at times that some drivers just cut it off by closing the doors. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 23:24:37 GMT
One would imagine that in such situations when C stock is diverted, the driver would make a special announcement to that effect? Having never been on a C stock that has been diverted, I don't know if they make any special announcements per se - I would expect them to simply state that this train will be terminating somewhere else. Whenever I've done it I've made extra announcements in addition to the DVA. But if you're heading from Tower Hill to Wimbledon, it's not practical to make an announcement at every station from Tower Hill to South Ken (those stations where passengers are expecting a C stock to be a Circle Line). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 23:25:50 GMT
As for the DVA as a whole - the new Picc DVA apparently has a "peak/offpeak" mode and during the peak the announcements omit the "touristy" information. Oh good! The District DVA is so pedantic and long winded at times that some drivers just cut it off by closing the doors. The D stock refurbs have peak/off-peak modes which operate automatically - the train knows what time it is! The peak mode is, thankfully, less long-winded. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2006 12:37:38 GMT
The D stock refurbs have peak/off-peak modes which operate automatically - the train knows what time it is! The peak mode is, thankfully, less long-winded. News to me ...I've never noticed a difference .....can you quote some examples for me to listen out for ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2006 14:51:41 GMT
The D stock refurbs have peak/off-peak modes which operate automatically - the train knows what time it is! The peak mode is, thankfully, less long-winded. News to me ...I've never noticed a difference .....can you quote some examples for me to listen out for ? Tower Hill is a good one, much less tedious! IIRC all references to riverboats diappear in the peak, so Westminster and Embankment are also shorter. And I think it drops the Exhibition centre at Earls Court. |
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Nov 14, 2006 21:59:04 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, it plays the off-peak announcements between 1000 and 1600, all week. The Tower Hill one comes in at a massive 25 seconds for the off-peak announcement  . In addition to the riverboat information, it also includes the tourist information, i.e. the 'alight here for.......' bits. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2006 23:41:18 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, it plays the off-peak announcements between 1000 and 1600, all week. Yeah, I've noticed that at 5pm on a Sunday it's still in "peak" mode! If it can tell the time, why doesn't it know what day it is?  |
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Post by Colin on Nov 15, 2006 3:31:18 GMT
News to me ...I've never noticed a difference .....can you quote some examples for me to listen out for ? Tower Hill is a good one, much less tedious! IIRC all references to riverboats diappear in the peak, so Westminster and Embankment are also shorter. And I think it drops the Exhibition centre at Earls Court. And the tennis at Southfields. |
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Post by maxtube on May 20, 2008 15:01:45 GMT
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but the way I'd let people know about lines (as well as being useful for the deaf) is to have, instead of in-car line diagrams, there should be screens with line diagrams on them, that light up according to the train's destination. When it says 'This is a District Line train to Upminster', the 'District Line' bit, as well as all the stations between the current station and the destination, would flash, or something like that. Some text could also appear on-screen saying 'Change for Bakerloo and Northern Lines' or something like that.
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Post by Alight on May 20, 2008 17:29:32 GMT
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but the way I'd let people know about lines (as well as being useful for the deaf) is to have, instead of in-car line diagrams, there should be screens with line diagrams on them, that light up according to the train's destination. When it says 'This is a District Line train to Upminster', the 'District Line' bit, as well as all the stations between the current station and the destination, would flash, or something like that. Some text could also appear on-screen saying 'Change for Bakerloo and Northern Lines' or something like that. A similar system elsewhere has been carried out with LED light maps. The Idea you've presented is quite a decent one. However think of all the vandelism and expense. Plus I personally prefer the standard DMIs - they do me fine. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 11, 2008 13:44:02 GMT
The D Stock does not announce the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Club at Southfields
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Post by setttt on Jul 11, 2008 17:45:56 GMT
The D Stock does not announce the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Club at Southfields It will do if the relevant code is entered by the train operator. |
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bowchurch
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Post by bowchurch on Jul 22, 2008 20:46:10 GMT
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but the way I'd let people know about lines (as well as being useful for the deaf) is to have, instead of in-car line diagrams, there should be screens with line diagrams on them, that light up according to the train's destination. When it says 'This is a District Line train to Upminster', the 'District Line' bit, as well as all the stations between the current station and the destination, would flash, or something like that. Some text could also appear on-screen saying 'Change for Bakerloo and Northern Lines' or something like that. A similar system elsewhere has been carried out with LED light maps. I think it was New York where I saw this. The line diagram is still a bit of paper stuck on the wall. But each station has a small lamp under it (about the size of a torch bulb) that lights up as the train arrived in each station. They are really simple and do the job well. I've tried to find a picture, but my Google powers are not up to it this evening, although I've found the modern version instead: www.subwaynut.com/rollingstock/r160/r160int1.jpg I can't decide if they are good or bad. Good from the point of view that you are left in no doubt where you are now, and what station is next - but if you are after a station in the '...' area you don't know you are on the right train, going the right way, with the right stopping pattern. They also are not that informative about diverging routes either. |
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Post by edwin on Jul 22, 2008 21:06:43 GMT
A better option altogether would be to have LCD screens instead of car maps. More flexible especially on the SSL as they could change the map completely for every line, instead of what we have now where you can't tell which line you are on (if you ignore the DVAs  ) but half of them won't be working after a trip to Upminster and back... |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2008 22:05:50 GMT
I believe that LCD screens have been suggested before, but that the extra heat they would generate is a non-trivial problem. Weight might also be a factor, but I'm not sure about this.
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Post by edwin on Jul 23, 2008 15:48:46 GMT
Never thought about that... Won't the heat generated by LCDs pale in comparision to the heat generated by those gigantic projectors that are popping up everywhere?
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Post by Alight on Jul 23, 2008 16:24:39 GMT
Looks more like an advanced (plus expensive) version of dot matrix! I think in terms of all these suggestions, aforementioned, I am a fan of what we currently have - they do the trick. Think about it, DVA/DMIs are in use for passengers who either have a sight/hearing disability or for lost tourists or people who haven't a clue where they are. As for people who use the system everyday, it is useful as you will receive the knowledge into your brain of all the different alights/changes so that next time you plan an outing...Science Museum anyone? South Ken! I think installing such expensive alternatives is not going to benefit any of the above. People will still ignore the "all change please" or helplessly look out the windows to see the station rounds instead of looking at the DMI. People who need to know information can listen to/watch what is already in place. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 23, 2008 17:42:38 GMT
Never thought about that... Won't the heat generated by LCDs pale in comparision to the heat generated by those gigantic projectors that are popping up everywhere? The projectors (which do seem absolutely huge for what they are) are on stations, which are (usually) far simpler to ventilate than trains, which is where LCD maps would be if I've understood your idea correctly. |
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Post by Alight on Sept 27, 2008 20:45:09 GMT
Just some updates about the DVA on the S Stock.
Those who have been to the exhibition will be aware that there is a voice over artist (who me and someone from Derby suspect is from Derby due to the Bombardier factory as well as the accent) who is rather dull. I recon this was a temporary one to demonstrate the messages on offer being displayed on the DMI screens.
The layout it appears seems to be as follows:
"This is Liverpool Street. Change for the Central Line and National Rail services"
and then two "The next station is":
"The next station is Liverpool Street. This is a Metropolitan Line all stations train to Amersham"
"The next station is Liverpool Street. Change for the Central Line and National Rail services"
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Post by antharro on Sept 28, 2008 19:21:11 GMT
Those who have been to the exhibition will be aware that there is a voice over artist (who me and someone from Derby suspect is from Derby due to the Bombardier factory as well as the accent) who is rather dull. I recon this was a temporary one to demonstrate the messages on offer being displayed on the DMI screens. This is correct. It was mentioned who it was, but I forget. I think it's the wife of one of the managers/Bombardier staff... either way, it's not the person who's going to be the final announcer, those announcements are just there for the exhibition. |
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). This would be awfully handy on the parts of the line with a service every few minutes - meaning that when you board the train you hear a confirmation that the train is for that line and for X station. I'm bringing this up because the 95 and 96TS both just say "This train terminates at..."
) but half of them won't be working after a trip to Upminster and back...
