Rail Replacement Bus Service-MD of bus co responds

And I think you're being offensive. You seem to forget the someone else might have a different point of view to yours which you refuse to accept.

I'm with Mitcham on this one. I'm not LU staff, but in a similar sort of job where I will get shouted at and insulted by supposed colleagues at if things aren't fixed and working quickly. It's not my job to get the thing working, and I know it's not aimed at me personally but it's still a very nasty thing to be on the receiving end of. If it happens to me, which mercifully it doesn't very often, it puts my entire day down the pan.

But if he wasn't there then, quite frankly, he quite probably doesn't know why the incident unfolded as he did. He can apologise, and promise to pass your complaint on, but he can't travel back in time and fix it or give you information he doesn't have. People come and ask me why such-and-such person didn't do this-that-or-the-other at another station and I'm not a mind-reader. Nor do I know why a driver has not made a PA about a station closure when I know perfectly well I've personally put out a sign instructing him to do so. Nor do I know why an SAMF the other side of London sold you a zone 1-2 when you needed Zone 1-4. Nor do I know why the buses are disrupted today. Nor do I know why Queens Park had no tube maps out. Nor do I know why someone at another station supposedly misread your ticket and let you through even though it's out of date (and it certainly doesn't mean I'm going to let you through as well). I'm not a mindreader and I'm not in psychic contact with every other member of TfL's staff, and if you come in with the attitude that things beyond my control *are* my fault, then I'm going to be less inclined to look on you as someone who I can give a reasonable answer to, and more like someone who I want to get out of my way as soon as possible. I go to a great length to try to explain a problem to someone who looks like they'll listen and understand it, but some people simply act as if they aren't worth the breath it would take to try to do so. (Example: "Why does it take me half an hour to get to Kings Cross from Arnos Grove now when it used to take ten minutes to get from Arnos to Covent Garden." NO IT DID NOT.) And if you *do* approach me with a complaint, and I point you to the right channels to make one, don't continue to have a go at *me*.

</rant and slight tangent off>

I'm patient almost to a fault and if someone asks me a "Why?" question, I do try to answer it, and I do read anything I can get my hands on so that I have as much knowledge at my fingertips as possible. Ask a reasonable question and, if I've got the time, I'll do my best to answer and try to point you in the right direction to find out more; I've had quite a few enjoyable conversations with passengers about the history of the Tube and such as a result.

at then end of the day it dont matter if were LUL staff or not no one likes getting shouted at in there place of work when people are going to work and lines get closed they seem to find it alright to take it out on us but what passengers dont understand is that when there in THERE work do they like getting shouted at i think not so dont do it to railway staff end of the day its our job i wouldnt shout at someone in an office or call centre or shop because there doing THERE job just like i am doing MINE when stuff breaks down end of day its life so get over it!

RT, I'm not sure if you worked for LU after the "Dangerous Dave" episode, but the way that SPC's can talk to staff has changed hugely. And please tell me the railwaymen are intimdated by somebody not saying Good Morning? I've certainly not met any. (annoyed yes, intimidated no)

I'm also quite surprised we're unable to differentiate between a moan and a "tirade of abuse".

For a pro like Dean Sullivan to call an encounter with a customer as a "tirade of abuse" means we're talking a little more than a few cross words.

Additionally - photographs were taken of the staff involved.

So that is not intimidating behaviour?

However one important thing that is missing - intimidating behaviour is a personal preception. One member of staff could laugh of a triade of abuse, whilst another could dwell on the incident and could affect them. This isn't PC this is fact.

I worked for LT/LU from 1977 until I was sold to the highest bidder in 2003 and in my 25 years with the company I knew Dangerous Dave to be an obnoxious and ignorant individual. The management that promoted him knew exactly what he was like when he was trained as a supervisor in the early 1980s and at devolution his reputation was well known too! Management were as guilty as the man for what he did, they knew what was going on and choose to ignore it. I think everyone in the signal engineering division had heard about it but his peers would not comment, it was not the done thing. I understand that after his exile he returned to work on the system though I'm not sure in what capacity. Generally the dirty washing in the signal department was never laundered in public but that case was exceptional and in reality more heads should have rolled than actually did! The case was extreme and no-one I know would ever condone what went on.

You misread what I wrote! What I wrote was that I knew railwaymen that COULD INTIMIDATE just by saying good morning!




The point there is that people do know the difference but some choose to be offended where others would not be. Sensitivity is an extremely grey area and it cannot realistically be quantified to the satisfaction of everyone.



I'm sorry but there is no law against being photographed in a public place although a Police Officer would suggest that it could lead to a public order offence or worse. We are the most photographed nation on the planet and especially on LU premises, all over the capital and in many towns and cities in the UK. Yes it is intimidating but no-one stops LU doing it or local authorities or indeed the Police. As someone who was installing CCTV across the Underground from the 1970s to the 1990s I have no problem being 'snapped' and no-one in a public place, or indeed in proper execution of their duty in a public place, should either. As a bus enthusiast I have seen plenty of 'fingers' from bus drivers in London but that would not stop me taking a photo from a safe place as is my habit. Where I live these days the bus drivers are more likely to pose and that gives a very good impression. Of course it is polite to ask before taking pictures in some circumstances and common sense should prevail, however, some people just love to make something out of nothing and that includes 'officials' and Police Officers.

In the particular circumstances of the incident I would not have been inclined to take pictures of individuals but that is a common sense call, it does no good to wind people up or to make a situation worse.



Yes indeed and that is the point that I made above!

Ah, sorry I didn't read your original post correctly.

@ 'railtechnician' - with regard to your reply #36 above, where you talk about my definition.........that isn't my definition, but the definition by which I believe the law works.

Fair enough but I simply referred to it as yours as you quoted it without a source, nothing else expressed or implied

Couldnt have said it better

Ah! Well that puts a different light on the situation but I think it demonstrates clearly enough just how easy it can be to make incorrect assumptions as I did.

Thanks for that enlightenment Phil ! I was a bit bemused by Tom's post ..obviously it is about expectations and usual behaviours ....

In London, as a rule, we don't allow passengers on the bus until it's booked departure time, regardless of how long we are sat at the first stop either on break or simply recovery stand time.

That said I may sometimes allow passengers to board, if it's cold or wet or whatever ...but doing so confines you to the cab, if you plan to stretch your legs then you can't really let them in. Even then I find they start moaning about how long they have to wait until departure or a bus on a paralleling route may arrive after but depart first !! Some are, of course, appreciative. But it is MY choice if they get on or not ! An experienced driver taught me, if they come and tap on your doors, never open them - you won't get them off, nor talk through the glass, gesture them round to the offside window and talk through that, psycologically it puts you in a stronger position ...and it does !! ;D

I was once in Stratford Bus station about to depart when a small group of youths came to ask me what stop I picked up from, rather than try to describe, and they would not have got there before me, plus they would have walked in a no public area, I let them board where I was, then moved to the first stop ...the first lady on then had a right go at me saying I had let "my friends" on first so they could sit in the front seats upstairs where she wanted to sit !!! She then went on and on about it loudly to her associates for the entire journey

Like us - - - but it's OUR CHOICE, and the pax have no right to expect it.
Mind you down here it's only the new drivers that arrive at the bus station without the destination reset AND the ticket machine 'turned round'!!!! (And if changing driver the module is out of the machine, driver has coat on etc., etc., all for a quick turn-round)