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Post by abe on Jan 27, 2008 11:35:44 GMT
Quick question about the signalling in the siding at Wood Green. I've read that in 1981 a repeating shunt signal was installed half-way along the siding. This was because all trains had to travel up to the FRLs at the end, and when the three-car Aldwych shuttle did this the driver could no longer see the exit shunt signal because of the tunnel curvature. There was a concern that if he motored towards the tunnel exit to see the signal, and it was at danger, then an overrun and possible derailment could occur.
Is this correct? Did this signal exist? If so, does anyone have any diagrams or photos?
Thanks,
ABE
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 27, 2008 13:03:41 GMT
Yes, it does exist. It's an obscured glass sign which shows a black bar at 450 when the shunt is off.
I think I've got some more detail on it at work - I was involved in finding out about it in order to put something similar in on the Waterloo and City line.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 27, 2008 14:22:16 GMT
I've got the peril for Wood Green - but I think it's amalgamating all the previous instructions.
As I'm currently at work I'll check at home - however if it isn't there I would be quite interested in knowing the distances from the FRLs or shunt signal.
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Post by abe on Jan 28, 2008 20:13:43 GMT
Yes, it does exist. It's an obscured glass sign which shows a black bar at 45 0 when the shunt is off. So it's still in place then? Do three-car trains ever use the siding since the demise of Aldwych? Any info you could supply would be great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2008 0:49:04 GMT
Not three-car, but four-car - AFAIK the 1972mkI that lives on the Aldwych branch reverses at Wood Green, and IIRC a four-car 1972mkI is almost the same length as a 3-car 1973TS.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jan 29, 2008 1:07:09 GMT
Having almost emptied my sofa of WTTs and TTNs, I've managed to look at the peril shelf in the library.
Can't be of any germane help, I'm afraid, as the peril dates from 1969.
However the siding has shunt signal G10 with trip arm adjacent to the block joint sited 30' from the blades of 5 (to EB) and 6 (to WB) with 8 FYLs spaced 50' apart. FYLs are equally 50' apart from the bufferstop, rather than the blockjoint at the end of TC 'H'.
The siding is composed of two track circuits 'G' and 'H', with 5 and 3 FYLs respectively. I would endeavour to suggest that the repeater for G10 is near the blockjoint, about 150' (plus 2/3rds-ish of another 50') from the bufferstop.
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 29, 2008 10:12:25 GMT
Most of the maintenance I did in the area was delta spreads, points and tripcock testers apart from changing relays in the IMR. I don't recall the actual repeater, RPG10, it's not that surprising really as the only time I went into the siding in recent years was to reset the siding circuit breaker while testing the siding TT circuit in Engineering Hours but I saw it on the IMR diagram when locally testing the signalling from the frame.
It was I think late 1978 when we took out Wood Green signal cabin replacing it with a temporary platform really room on the east end of the eastbound controlled from Arnos Grove signal cabin. I remember that night as a long night, indeed we took out the old frame and loaded it onto a train during the changeover shift, I believe it was going to a preservation group somewhere. During the Saturday night changeover not everything went smoothly, a new electronic train describer system was installed to replace the RSTD. It had been trialled at Earls Court I believe but it wasn't working correctly, of the many of us involved in the changeover (virtually the whole of Whitechapel New Works) about 20 of us were asked to remain while everyone else returned to depot on the first westbound train. For the most part we were just tidying up while the TD lineman and installation supervisors were trying to rectify the TD problems. ISTR that one, two or possibly more eastbound trains had passed through the site okay during this time. Then the first Sunday morning east to west reverser came in and when signalled took the route. The train entered the siding and berthed but the points remained reverse and locked, 'F' track remaining down. Apparently at some point prior to the changeover F & G tracks had somehow been transposed on the incoming fuses in the temporary relay room. The Tester then took my supervisor into the relay room, expelling everyone else, closing both doors and gave him a dressing down and an appointment for his DB. My supervisor had been the one responsible for pretesting the new wiring on nights so he had to carry the can even though a gang on days had worked on the wiring, labelling the fuses in the relay room, after we had tested it. I was working the track dropping board on the changeover, it was a task I did often, and I recall the tester asking me to drop F for Freddie then repeating it. I replied that I had dropped F for Freddie and he then asked me to drop G for George. I have always felt that he missed a discrepancy at that point but what did I know as I was only a semiskilled wireman at the time. My supervisor was 'dropped' though he remained in a New Works depot in an admin capacity no longer allowed to work without supervision. I and the rest of his gang, particularly my chargehand, felt this was a travesty as he was far more competent than one of his peers who was also working on site and was legend at blame shifting (these days he would have been called Teflon but that slang was not in use at the time!).
These days Wood Green siding is a single track, H, and delta H detects the front of a berthing train so presumably RPG10 is a train's length and a few feet or thereabouts west of the fixed head trainstop, the only blockjoint being the one between F and H tracks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 18:54:41 GMT
I managed to obtain a photo of the said shunt repeater. I shall post it up later when I get home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 22:05:15 GMT
As promised. With the associated shunt at danger. ...and with the shunt cleared.
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Apr 20, 2008 9:09:34 GMT
Having just checked a diagram, it would seem that the shunt repeater is located 59.8m from the stopping mark, which is located 1.5m from the two FRLs.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 20, 2008 15:14:01 GMT
Cheers. I'll add that as a footnote in the Wood Green peril.
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 22, 2008 15:43:05 GMT
Not three-car, but four-car - AFAIK the 1972mkI that lives on the Aldwych branch reverses at Wood Green, and IIRC a four-car 1972mkI is almost the same length as a 3-car 1973TS. A 4 car 72TS would be slightly longer than a 3 car 73TS. If they were the same length, 8 car 72TS, and therefore 8 car 59TS, would fit in the stations!
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