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Post by ilya on Jan 8, 2008 14:14:07 GMT
Didn't find any other place where to put this topic. As there are many words to say, let me start to talk about Suburban Commuter Service (passenger railway service). Buses, Trolleybuses, Tramways and the Monorail will be featured in this topic, too, but in other posts. So, there are 9 main railway terminus in Moscow (we call such station "Вокзал" (Vokzal)). 7 of them carry both commuter (suburban) trains and long-distance trains and have interchanges to stations of the Circle line of the Metro (and 3 of them are situated at Three Main Railway Stations' Square (Komsomolskaya sq. and Komsomolskaya Metro station)), 2 of them carry only suburban sevice and also have interchanges to Metro, but not the Circle line. Every suburban line is called direction. Some vokzals hold 2 or 3 directions. There are some other interchanges between suburban service and Metro but usually they are not good. So normally suburban service, as we say, 'lives its own life' in the system of city transport. Normally, suburban and long-distance trains use same tracks (if not in Moscow, then some kilometres away). So in the mornings and evenings there are much more suburban trains in service (to carry people to their workplaces) than any other time, and after morning peak there is a two- or three-hour break in suburban service, when all the works and repairings are being done. Long-distance trains arrive and depart usually in the evening and night between 16 and 4, the latest trains are mostly those carrying passengers from one city to another via Moscow (so normally few people get in and out of these trains in Moscow). The stopping points of suburban trains are called 'platforms' (because most of them are just platforms located on the mainline without any additional tracks). Few platforms also have interchanges between each other, or Metro. Many platforms have interchanges to bus service.  'Dolgoprudnaya' platform. The timetable of suburban trains is impossible to remember. Normally from 30 to 70 per cent of the trains (different to each direction) have its own stops, others stop at every platform. Some trains run Mon-Fri, some Mon-Thu, some Sat-Sun, some Sun only etc. Due to common tracks for the whole rail service it's quite usual that the train has been canceled or the time of its departure was changed. When it happens, passengers have to find a small sheet of paper near the timetable, where there will be an advertisement, sometimes badly handwritten or printed with nr.9 font. The longest suburban distance is more than 250 kilometres from Moscow (Moscow-Ryasan train, runs 3 times to Ryazan-I, 5 times to Ryazan-II station, about 4h30m of journey to one direction  ) The trains are usually ER-2 (Electric train Riga) with modifications, ED-4 (Electric train Demikhovo) and some else.  (photo by Ilya Antonovski, www.rus-etrain.ru ) |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 8, 2008 16:29:22 GMT
Thanks for the info. So how many non metro stations are there (i.e. suburban)?
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Post by edwin on Jan 8, 2008 19:47:27 GMT
So does the system shut after the morning peak, and open again in the evening peak?!?!
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Post by ilya on Jan 8, 2008 20:44:02 GMT
Not exactly. On most directions there are two-hour or three-hour breaks in suburban service after the morning peak. May be vars: Qazanskoe Direction, for example has 1h30m break, then one train missing some unpopular platforms, then 1h30m break again. During the break the platform staff (if exists, it is featured by the ticket office man only in most cases) has unofficial breaks too. Of course, you can enter the platforms (except those with automated fare control like in Metro, in this case you have to buy a ticket to enter the platform, but, as said before, during the break staff is 'gone somewhere') and wait for a train, but I'd search another way of travelling rather than wait for 3 hours How many are there suburban platforms? Well, nobody tried to count the whole service (maybe because some faraway platforms are physically just some noticeable objects near the tracks, and the train stops +-100 metres round of it, and passengers get into right from the ground (!) ), but in Moscow itself there are little more than 70 platforms and 9 'vokzals'. |
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Post by edwin on Jan 8, 2008 23:21:25 GMT
Is the reason why so many use the metro is because the suburban trains are so rubbish?  |
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Post by ilya on Jan 9, 2008 0:21:33 GMT
No, that isn't. Our transport system is quite idiotic. Normally, when you travel from your home to your workplace, you use Bus/Tram/Trolleybus then Metro then Bus/Tram/Trolleybus again (!). You can hardly ever get to your destination without Metro. And those who live in suburbs use bus, then the suburban service, then change for Metro. I don't think there are some people who do not have to interchange less than twice. So the reason why everyone uses Metro is because if you ride anything else, finally it will bring you to Metro station, and due to traffic jams, it is much faster if you use Metro even when you need to get to the line next to yours than you use bus to shorten your way. For example, my typical 'transport day' is: Home -> Bus (choose from wide range of routes) -> Belaevo Metro st. (Orange line) -> Tretyakovskaya Metro st. (interchange to Yellow line) -> Aviamotornaya Metro st. -> Bus (either route 59 or 759) -> walk -> Workplace -> walk -> Bus (either 59 or 759) -> Frezer platform, where I take the suburban train -> Vykhino platform & Metro st. (Violet line) -> walk -> University -> walk - Vykhino platform & Metro st. -> Kitai-Gorod (interchange to Orange line) -> Belaevo Metro st. -> Bus -> Home. Do you understand what the brown stuff I have to do everyday? |
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Post by edwin on Jan 9, 2008 1:09:02 GMT
I take it is not a full time job then...
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Post by Chris M on Jan 9, 2008 1:20:25 GMT
It sounds like getting anywhere is a full time job!
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Post by ilya on Jan 9, 2008 2:24:43 GMT
Well, the maximum of 6 hours for transport (3&3) and 8 hours for work = 14 hours of the day, 2 hours to do home works and shopping, 8 hours to sleep, not that bad if you're a lonely person But the average time we spend on transport is 3 hours daily (1h30m & 1h30m), of course if we mean just travelling from home to work and backwards. Little offtopic. This year big bosses from Moscow Metro, Moscow Transport Department, Moscow Government and other structures that are in charge of transport made forecast that there would be a Big Stoppage Of Everything in one of the days of New Year and Christmas holidays (Dec 31 - Jan 8), when Moscow transport would stop in enormous circulated traffic jam. Past few years had shown these forecasts could become reality, but... this year many tired clever people flew, drove and choo-chooed away from Moscow to other cities and countries to spend their holidays good. So there were no extra traffic jams during this time, and the Metro was half-filled... |
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Post by ilya on Jan 9, 2008 2:49:45 GMT
Okay, men, let's now have a look at our Trolleybus network. Moscow has the biggest trolleybus network in the World. There are more than 80 routes, and trolleybuses can be met at most of big streets and wide prospects. In Soviet Union times, many tramway lines were closed and replaced by the trolleybus. What's our trolleybus like nowadays? There are many kinds of them at the streets. The main model is ZiU-682 (with uncountable quantity of modifications), which has been manufactured since late 1970s. Also there are ZiU-683 (articulated version), Trolza-5275.00, Trolza-5275.25 Optima, Trolza-5265 Megapolis (and also articulated version), Trans-Alpha Premierre (and also articulated version) and some others.  Modern ZiU-682 route 62 just left Metro Yugo-Zapadnaya stop. (Photo by A.Konov fot.com.ru )  Another one at the same place, you may notice that it has a widened front door. (Photo by A.Konov fot.com.ru )  ZiU-683 (Photo by Georg fot.com.ru )  Modern MTRZ Sadko (Photo by Ramirez fot.com.ru )  Trolza Megapolis near VDNKH Metro station (Photo by D.Dremkoff fot.com.ru )  Trans-Alpha Premierre near VDNKH-South circle. (Photo by Sasha13653 fot.com.ru ) |
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Post by ilya on Jan 12, 2008 2:33:06 GMT
To add, some numbers about trolleybuses:
- 87 routes (Numbers 1-95 with some free and route number "Б")
- More than 1300 trolleybuses on duty daily (according to official MosGorTrans information)
- Headway between trolleybuses: on most routes 2-5 minutes at early mornings and peak hours (due to traffic jams it's quite usual when you see three or four trolleybuses of same route, than 20 minutes there are no trolleybuses of that route at all), and up to 40 minutes late evenings. Nevertheless, there is only one route of trolleybus which has a timetable shown to passengers No21, carrying people from Polezhayevskaya metro st. to Serebryaniy Bor, a big park with popular city beach.
- As in all the municipal buses and tramways, you may enter the trolleybus only through the 1st door (quite a circus if a group of 300 people is boarding the trolleybus, on some routes it's usual). Ticket for one trip costs 25 roubles ($1 or 1/2-pound) if bought from driver and 17 roubles if somewhere in the city. 20- and 60-trip tickets give little discounts for passengers. Monthly ticket for three kinds of overground public transport (TAT - Trolleybus, 'Autobus', Tramway) costs 755 roubles (15 pounds or $30).
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Post by ilya on Jan 17, 2008 13:23:21 GMT
If there are questions, please ask me  Don't let this topic die like this I'm sure there are people here who miss trolleybuses very much  |
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Post by edwin on Jan 17, 2008 13:53:06 GMT
Urm... What stops trolley buses current collectors from coming off? Nothing at all?
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Post by ilya on Jan 17, 2008 14:07:24 GMT
Err... sorry, but could you please write it again in some other words, I didn't understand the question |
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Post by edwin on Jan 18, 2008 9:52:18 GMT
If i'm right, they are driven by a conductor and are not automatic, what if the driver were to go off course, would the pantograph come off the electrical wire?
Sorry if it's not clear, I can't think of any other way of putting it!
Another question I had was if you had any pictures of Moscow's rail terminals? Do they have the grandeur of the Metro?
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Post by ilya on Jan 18, 2008 22:24:14 GMT
Yes, of course they are driven by driver (the only automatic public transport in Russia is three lines (of four) of St.Petersburg metro). If the driver goes outside the course, the pantographs ('moustache' ) would come off the line. Sometimes, when there are too many illegally parked cars, trolleybuses can't pass them normally, so here some risky drivers accelerate, violently 'come off' the wires, pass these cars and stop the trolleybus under the wires again, then go out, put the pantographs back onto the wires, and that's all . Those who are not risky and those who didn't manage to 'return' the t-bus back under the wires may ask passengers (yes!) to help a little to push the t-bus to get it under the wires . |
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Post by edwin on Jan 19, 2008 2:17:36 GMT
Trolleybuses are strange things... Thanks for the info.
And I never knew the St. Petersburg Metro had driverless trains... Or do you mean Automatic Train Operation? I thought the Moscow Metro had this.
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Post by ilya on Jan 19, 2008 7:57:40 GMT
St.P.Metro has drivers, but on three of four lines they only press the button to close the doors (for more safety of passengers) |
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Post by edwin on Jan 19, 2008 17:34:17 GMT
Yep, that's what I thought.
Why doesn't Moscow have this? What does it use instead to achieve such high frequencies...
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Post by ilya on Jan 21, 2008 23:47:53 GMT
edwinIt's easier and safer to drive the trains manually when having such high frequencies, because the human is clever while the machine is not. More info in PM, because for here it's offtopic. Okay, while the public on here keeps being cool on trolleybuses, let's discuss Moscow bus network. There are more than 600 municipal routes ("MosGorTrans") and more than 800 commercial routes (mainly "Autoline"). There are many different types of buses on our streets, see full list right here. If there are any questions about them, please ask here. But now I will describe the network. Except two routes, every bus route brings people at least to one "railway platform", and usually to one or some Metro stations. Nevertheless, the connections between nearby neighbourhoods are quite bad and the traffic jams are awful, so it's quite usual you have to travel by bus/trolley/tram, then by metro, then again by bus/trolley/tram. So the bus network is made to get people to the nearest Metro station. When using any municipal bus/trolley/tram, you should enter the carriage at the first door, where a turnstile with ticket reader are located.  That system was launched three years ago, and all the citizens hate it, because it's usual when a bus pauses at bus stop for 5-7 minutes due to 200-300 people need to stuff in (and moreover if we talk about trolley and tram, you have to wait for the previous carriage to load full and drive away, so it's not 5-7, but 10-14 minutes then). Before that, we've had a conductor in each bus/trolley/tram, and that was good, but some idiots in Department found the new 'automated fare control system' good (they don't seem to have ever used our public transport), and forced municipals to install that bloody device. Of course, 'Autoline' while being commercial, couldn't be forced to go this way, and they didn't. ________ 'Autoline' holds some 'traditional' bus routes, where large Scania OmniLinks are at run. But most of their routes are served by small "GAZelle"s and Fords. We call them 'route taxis' as the driver may stop the 'bus' (I'd prefer to call it a van, or a can ) at every point you need along the route. They are quite chaotic on the road. Sometimes they stop in very bad places such 'stop right here, please' or 'stop immediately after the crossing, please'. And the driver takes money while in process of driving, sometimes turning his head at 180-degree angle . When you drive your car, you can never expect what the driver of Route Taxi is going to do. That's why they are quite dangerous for everyone...but people still use them, because while being tired of 2-hour (or even 3-hour) single journey from home to work, they do not care what they ride, a bus, a tram, a route taxi or a horse, they just need to get to their destination as soon as possible. There are many jokes about route taxis ('just five minutes of scary nightmares - and you're at home!', 'slam the door like you touch your wife' etc)  GAZelle...incredible, but it carries 16 or even 17 passengers sitting, and one driver.
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Don't let this topic die like this 
