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Post by spsmiler on Jan 7, 2024 13:49:22 GMT
A busy road bridge over the Central line along Broadmead Road in Woodford failed a safety check and had to be closed as a matter of urgency. Lineside areas below the bridge were also closed, because of the risk of falling debris. Given this risk to parked cars and pedestrians on either side of the railway its a wonder that Central line trains are still allowed to pass below that bridge! btw, the bridge needs replacing but the local council (LB Redbridge) does not have the funds to do this. www.redbridge.gov.uk/news/september-2023/broadmead-road-update-monday-2-october-2023/ |
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Post by stapler on Jan 8, 2024 8:59:01 GMT
All the new bridges (of concrete construction) over the Central Line as built by the LNER to replace level crossings in 1938/40 seem suspect. Possibly just age. Broadmead Rd [replacing Snakes and Horn Lanes crossings] is only the latest (mid 2023. That at Theydon Bois over the B172, which replaced TB Station crossing, was discovered and remedied in the 90s, Investigations into the one at Woodford Jc, as the Loop leaves the main line, are ongoing by Essex CC, in whose territory it [just] falls. This one replaced Squirrels Lane LC]
Maybe the faults do not imperil the actual railway. Doubtless LU civil engineers have
been assured....
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Post by pgb on Jan 9, 2024 7:28:11 GMT
A hammer tap survey meaning "it went clink not clunk". Nice to see older methods are still in operation!
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Post by stapler on Feb 4, 2024 11:03:01 GMT
It occurs to me the next one on the list might be the George Lane LC replacement bridge ("The Viaduct") with its curious quarter circle configuration. I do recollect some work being done on this c25 years ago - but does anyone know if it was seriously strengthened then? It certainly wasn't replaced.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 5, 2024 23:23:42 GMT
I might yet make a YouTube film about the closed bridge - if I do it will suggest that if the bridge is a danger to road traffic then what about rail traffic?
Will a lump of concrete have to fall onto the tracks (or even a moving train in passenger service) to get this bridge either repaired or replaced?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 6, 2024 1:09:36 GMT
Bits of bridge collapse onto active railway? Surely not! Oh. |
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Post by zbang on Feb 6, 2024 2:58:10 GMT
(.....a few days ago the RAIB issued a report about an occurrence.....)
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Post by miff on Feb 6, 2024 7:02:50 GMT
Redbridge’s page about the bridge closure says their engineers are working with TfL to complete all the structural surveys & analysis needed to fully understand the bridge condition; and “the Central Line is safe to use, and the full closure of the bridge has reduced the residual stress load the bridge carries daily”. I imagine TfL’d’ve taken their own action to close the railway if they didn’t agree with Redbridge’s structural engineers. Redbridge also reckon it could be about £25 million to fix it and’ve started a petition to the gov’t since they don’t have it. www.redbridge.gov.uk/have-your-say/broadmead-road-bridge/ |
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Post by brigham on Feb 6, 2024 8:38:40 GMT
What would it cost to substitute a remote-operated level crossing?
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Post by greatkingrat on Feb 6, 2024 10:18:12 GMT
Absolutely no chance of that happening. Even leaving aside the safety issues, the frequency of trains mean that a level crossing would be closed a large percentage of the time.
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Post by zbang on Feb 6, 2024 17:06:01 GMT
Simply on the cost question, there are many cubic meters of dirt to remove then probably half a mile of new road and pavements to construct. _Then_ add in the cost of the crossing and signaling. So "how much"? More than a bridge.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 6, 2024 23:13:28 GMT
Bridges were built on that route to replace level crossings - as someone else said, especially in the rush hour the crossing would be closed more than open.
Especially because crossing are closed for far longer than is needed for a train to actually traverse it. It is seen as acceptable to delay road users (including bus passengers) for 2 - 3 minutes before the train actually arrives at the crossing. Reduce this time to something more realistic and for quieter branch lines a crossing would be more acceptable to road users ... but that cannot apply here as the Epping branch is a busy branch line.
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Post by brigham on Feb 7, 2024 8:36:32 GMT
Once again I'm forgetting that conditions in London do not necessarily correspond with those in, for instance. Hartlepool; where a four-way underpass was replaced by a level crossing in order to save maintenance costs.
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Post by 35b on Feb 7, 2024 14:25:09 GMT
Once again I'm forgetting that conditions in London do not necessarily correspond with those in, for instance. Hartlepool; where a four-way underpass was replaced by a level crossing in order to save maintenance costs. Indeed. How many trains per hour in Hartlepool? |
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Post by xtmw on Feb 7, 2024 18:15:48 GMT
The service between Leytonstone and Loughton can actually get pretty intense during rush hour... (Not anymore !)
Maybe it could be looked at where it's closed during the peak hours, but open during other times. Service is usually around 5-15 mins during times other then the peak.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 7, 2024 22:25:02 GMT
Even though there is a train shortage on the Central line the uneven nature of the gaps can see trains as close as a few minutes apart (in the same direction)
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Post by brigham on Feb 8, 2024 8:53:06 GMT
Indeed. How many trains per hour in Hartlepool? Yes, well that's rather a sore point. The number of peak-time cancellations on the District Line recently, has often been greater than the number of timetabled trains between Middlesbrough and Newcastle-upon-Tyne, via the Durham coast. It tends to make the Minister for Levelling-Up sound as credible as his counterpart in Silly Walks. |
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Post by stapler on Feb 8, 2024 16:07:03 GMT
The Leytonstone-Loughton-Epping line can hardly be described as a branch line; it's the main line of the Central. Reversing the LC conversions of 1937-40 would just not be on.
I gather one casualty of the Broadmead closure is May's Ride London, whose two-wheeled participants are being diverted via the neo-Taj- Mahals of Chigwell Village...
There is (according to the Evening Standard) a supplementary bus service running, calling at Epping, Loughton, and Chingford. Shades of 2003 when that motor fell off at Chancery Lane. I saw today in Loughton High Rd an old double-decker out of Palmers Green garage, very helpfully marked "Special Service", but otherwise bereft of user information; and yesterday an Ensignbus decker in Loughton Station yard. Anyone have details of this shadowy and ill-publicised operation?
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 9, 2024 0:19:13 GMT
Its a branch line in as far as the Central line splits into two branches at Leytonstone - which are of equal importance
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imran
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Post by imran on Mar 24, 2024 13:49:04 GMT
Maybe it could be looked at where it's closed during the peak hours, but open during other times. Service is usually around 5-15 mins during times other then the peak. I hope not! We’ve already had to deal with months of delays on the Central Line. Closing the line between Leytonstone and Loughton/Hainault and Woodford would be the last thing anyone needs! |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 28, 2024 14:56:54 GMT
Even in the most murky parts of the FRIPAS board, the idea of a level crossing over a high-frequency metro service is pretty out-there!
They will have to cough up for the bridge repairs in one way or another.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 28, 2024 22:37:56 GMT
There are only three options that realistically could happen:
1. Repair the existing bridge
2. Replace it with a new bridge (not necessarily on the same alignment)
3. Close it without replacement.
Option 3 is going to be the least desirable but it might be the cheapest in the short term, which can never be ruled out as the chosen option in the current political and economic climate.
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Post by stapler on Mar 29, 2024 8:33:26 GMT
In early[-ish] railways (say pre 1865), level crossings were very common. The Leyton-Loughton line [the earliest bit of rail alignment currently on LU] was built in 1856; there were very few non-level crossings,as it did not cross any turnpike roads [bridge then necessary] north of Leyton, and in 1856 there was very, very, little road traffic, the gates were shut parallel with the railway across the road, with a gatekeeper's lodge at each to open on the approach of a few cattle..
These level crossings were eliminated in the 30s, to prepare for the Central line extension. (restoring them is FRIPAS indeed) Some followed Chris M's prescription 2, and some 3. Broadmead is a no.2, as is George Lane.
44ton lorries were undreamed of in 1939, and what is the increase in motor traffic since then, 1500%? There was no provision for bridge maintenance other than the rates of Essex County Council, who were the highway authority then. A relatively small unitary like Redbridge, created 1965, would have fewer resources especially nowadays, when borrowing £30m from the Public Works Loans Board might cripple their finances.
So these bridges will be problematic for the decades ahead...
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 31, 2024 12:41:47 GMT
The Ilford Recorder (local newspaper) dated 28th March 2024 says that the bridge will remain closed for now, as Redbridge council cannot afford a replacement.
So for now the option remains No.3, as suggested by Chris M (above).
My personal views:
As this bridge is over a London Underground service and also used by several London Buses services its replacement should be funded by London. In effect this means TfL, perhaps under instruction from the GLA and Mayor of London. For all I care they will welcome to add extra spin on the press release about their funding it by including segregated cycle lanes - as well as segregated footpaths and segregated motorised traffic lanes.
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Post by jimbo on Apr 23, 2024 20:42:46 GMT
FoI produces little info: link |
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Post by brigham on Apr 24, 2024 8:23:02 GMT
I can't imagine building a short stretch of A1009(M) being financially viable, but in London, who knows?
That bridge shows much evidence of shoring-up already. I'm guessing that the chosen option will be further strengthening, possibly of the 'better side' only in the initial term.
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