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Post by xplaistow on Dec 24, 2022 23:14:01 GMT
So a few Christmasses ago I posted a Connecting Wall (a la Only Connect) to the forum as a festive challenge and now I've come up with a new one. For the benefit of those who don't know how this works, the 16 stations below need to be separated into 4 groups of 4 where each group has a specific theme. An example group from the previous wall I made is Barkingside, Embankment, Royal Victoria, West Hampstead; stations that contain other stations in their names. There are probably a number of different ways this could be done but there is one "neat" solution I am looking for. That's "neat" in the sense of not being able to swap any stations between groups without making one or more of the links less specific or outright changing the links. Of course, as on the show there will be red herrings to watch out for so try and identify what they are by considering which other groups they might fit into. As for the rules on guessing I would kindly request that no-one submits any guesses until Boxing Day at the earliest. That way it gives everyone some time to think about it and also means I don't have to worry about this on what will invariably be a busy day. After that point feel free to make suggestions for possible groups of 4 and I will aim to respond when I'm available if you are right, wrong or semi-right. For Boxing Day specifically I'd appreciate one guess at a group per person at any one time just so I don't get flooded with too many guesses all at once to respond to. After that it'll probably be open season. Anyway, with all that said here's the wall for you all to mull over: Link if image isn't loading
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,235
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 25, 2022 17:19:42 GMT
Eight parks, you're mean!
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gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
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Post by gantshill on Dec 26, 2022 8:41:40 GMT
Thank you for the connecting wall. Can I get the ball rolling by noticing that there are at least four stations with "Out of Station Interchanges": White City, Northwick Park, Wanstead Park and West Hampstead.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 26, 2022 11:36:16 GMT
Thank you for the connecting wall. Can I get the ball rolling by noticing that there are at least four stations with "Out of Station Interchanges": White City, Northwick Park, Wanstead Park and West Hampstead. That's not actually one of the links I'm looking for although you're on the right track. OSIs are I would say semi-relevant here. Also my thanks to rincew1nd for fixing the image. This is the first time I've tried to include an image in a post here (without using Tapatalk).
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 26, 2022 22:18:52 GMT
Kilburn Park, Brondesbury Park, Wimbledon Park, Beckton Park - if you remove the Park you get the name of another station.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 27, 2022 0:46:21 GMT
Kilburn Park, Brondesbury Park, Wimbledon Park, Beckton Park - if you remove the Park you get the name of another station. You've found one of the links. Now what are the other 3?
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Post by t697 on Dec 27, 2022 10:34:38 GMT
Kilburn Park, Brondesbury Park, Wimbledon Park, Beckton Park - if you remove the Park you get the name of another station. You've found one of the links. Now what are the other 3? Wanstead Park could fit that set too.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 27, 2022 10:50:21 GMT
That's how the game works, there are usually several red herrings; hence my comment about eight parks!
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Post by stapler on Dec 27, 2022 13:29:55 GMT
Four of them are ex-GER stations, Debden, Hackney Downs, Newbury Pk and Liverpool St, and all four have some part of the original GER station standing and still in railway use today
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 27, 2022 15:21:38 GMT
Four of them are ex-GER stations, Debden, Hackney Downs, Newbury Pk and Liverpool St, and all four have some part of the original GER station standing and still in railway use today An interesting thought but that's not one of the links I'm looking for. As I mentioned, I'm sure there's more than one way to solve this wall and that is a potential problem for connecting walls in general. In a lot of cases you could probably find a different solution to the intended one if you try hard enough and maybe come up with slightly more tenuous links. I'm not saying this suggested link is at all tenuous but I do suspect it could lead to an alternate solution.
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gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,347
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Post by gantshill on Dec 27, 2022 18:30:12 GMT
There are six stations where you can reach platforms with another name: Bank (Monument) Hackney Downs (Hackney Central) Liverpool Street (Moorgate & London Liverpool Street <which feels cheating>) White City (Wood Lane - OSI) Northwick Park (South Kenton - OSI) West Hampstead (West Hampstead Thameslink - OSI) Wanstead Park (Forest Gate - OSI)
But taking any four of those out, and then four parks, doesn't leave me with a set with any obvious connections.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 27, 2022 21:27:27 GMT
There are six stations where you can reach platforms with another name: Bank (Monument) Hackney Downs (Hackney Central) Liverpool Street (Moorgate & London Liverpool Street <which feels cheating>) White City (Wood Lane - OSI) Northwick Park (South Kenton - OSI) West Hampstead (West Hampstead Thameslink - OSI) Wanstead Park (Forest Gate - OSI) But taking any four of those out, and then four parks, doesn't leave me with a set with any obvious connections. You've found one of the links although that's not quite the exact wording I have written on my answer sheet.
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 28, 2022 22:59:05 GMT
How about White City, West Hampstead, Newbury Park, Debden - all non terminus stations where trains can reverse.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 29, 2022 1:10:41 GMT
How about White City, West Hampstead, Newbury Park, Debden - all non terminus stations where trains can reverse. You're really close but that's not quite what I'm looking for.
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enness
enthusiastic railway amateur.
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Post by enness on Dec 29, 2022 10:18:51 GMT
How about White City, West Hampstead, Newbury Park, Debden - all non terminus stations where trains can reverse. ? add Liverpool Street & remove West Hampstead then you have Central Line " non terminus stations where trains can reverse" ?? ( thanks to xplaistow for keeping us entertained over Xmas )
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 29, 2022 12:37:29 GMT
How about White City, West Hampstead, Newbury Park, Debden - all non terminus stations where trains can reverse. ? add Liverpool Street & remove West Hampstead then you have Central Line " non terminus stations where trains can reverse" ?? ( thanks to xplaistow for keeping us entertained over Xmas ) And that's the group I was looking for. That makes 3 links found although only 2 sets of 4 have been locked in. (Edit to add now that I'm on my computer and not in the middle of the countryside): Also, I'm glad you appreciate this little bit of fun. Having done this twice now I've come up with a number of ideas for other links I could use. I might try to make this some kind of annual thing.
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Post by t697 on Dec 29, 2022 22:41:45 GMT
Here's a guess. Wanstead Park, Canons Park, Northwick Park and Latimer Road all have name connections to large country houses, not always local or still extant.
That leaves Bank, West Hampstead, Hackney Downs and Notting Hill Gate. Each interchanges with an adjacent or connected station; Monument, West Hampstead (x2), Hackney Central and at NHG, the Central line station was originally separate but later joined.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 30, 2022 1:23:15 GMT
Here's a guess. Wanstead Park, Canons Park, Northwick Park and Latimer Road all have name connections to large country houses, not always local or still extant. That's not the link I was looking for and also not one of my groups of 4. Also not what I'm looking for. gantshill was really close with The only slight issue with that (and it is very slight) is the exact phrasing.
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Post by t697 on Dec 30, 2022 6:35:05 GMT
So that set of four could be Bank – Monument, Hackney Downs – Hackney Central, Northwick Park – Kenton, Wanstead Park – Forest Gate as interchanges OSI or internal connection to a station with another name.
That leaves Latimer Road, West Hampstead, Canons Park, Notting Hill Gate. No idea!
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Post by t697 on Dec 30, 2022 9:30:39 GMT
Ah, Latimer Road, West Hampstead, Canons Park, Notting Hill Gate all originally opened by the Met Railway but now not served by the Met line.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 30, 2022 14:31:39 GMT
So that set of four could be Bank – Monument, Hackney Downs – Hackney Central, Northwick Park – Kenton, Wanstead Park – Forest Gate as interchanges OSI or internal connection to a station with another name. Ah, Latimer Road, West Hampstead, Canons Park, Notting Hill Gate all originally opened by the Met Railway but now not served by the Met line. We have reached the solution. I'm a little busy with other things right now so I will give the full breakdown along with some of my thought processes for putting this wall together later today.
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Post by xplaistow on Dec 30, 2022 23:07:34 GMT
As promised, here is the solution in full: Group 1:- Beckton Park
- Brondesbury Park
- Kilburn Park
- Wimbledon Park
Link: Remove the "Park"s to get another station. Group 2:- Bank
- Hackney Downs
- Northwick Park
- Wanstead Park
Link: They are linked with a differently named station on the Tube Map. Group 3:- Debden
- Liverpool Street
- Newbury Park
- White City
Link: Intermediate reversal points on the Central line. Group 4:- Canons Park
- Latimer Road
- Notting Hill Gate
- West Hampstead
Link: Metropolitan Railway stations not served by the present-day Met.
For anyone curious, this was my thought process when putting all this together: The first group I came up with was the Parks group. I figured that because there are 5 parks containing the name of another station it would be a good group with the bonus of a red herring station. I also had the idea of disguising the group further by including a couple of other parks. Since one of those 5 had to be in a different group I then had to work out another link that would use the leftover station. The result was the interchange link that would use up Wanstead Park. My initial plan for this link was simply OSIs, however I changed my mind because I believe Kilburn Park has an OSI with Kilburn High Road, thus the solution would not be unique as those two would be interchangable in the answers. As such, I went for interchange with differently named stations as shown on the Tube Map. This is also why I was being a bit of a stickler for details with the phrasing of the link (although I decided not to press for it in the end) as I wanted a specific reference to the map since that eliminates the possible inclusion of Kilburn Park (that link is not shown). Because this was another group with good potential for red herrings I came up with 6 stations that would fit it, 3 internal (Bank, Hackney Downs, Liverpool Street) and 3 OSIs (Northwick Park & White City to go with Wanstead Park, Northwick being the first "extra park"). Incidentally, this is the reason why I said that OSIs are "semi-relevant" in my first response. Having picked out Liverpool Street & White City I realised they were both Central line reversal points and so came up with the 3rd link. Since the first 2 links already had a number of red herrings I decided that the last 2 groups would have none because too many red herrings can make a connecting wall extremely hard to solve. This lead to the inclusion of Debden and Newbury Park (an obvious choice since it could be the second "extra park"). Having come up with 3 groups I then had a clean slate for the 4th since there were no leftover stations. It was at this point that I decided to include a 4th OSI (creating a red herring link) as a sort-of homage to my earlier idea and so opted for West Hampstead since, like the previous group, it is a reversal point although not on the Central line, hence only a partial red herring. (Incidentally, I did not originally intend for it to be a 3rd red herring for the interchange group as I actually forgot about the Thameslink station being on the Tube Map!) I wanted the final link to be slightly more obscure (it wouldn't be a proper DD quiz if it doesn't have a bit of challenge to it!) which led to the former Met stations link. I opted for one station from each of the west side of the Circle and the Hammersmith and Stanmore branches. I was only going to have 7 parks on the wall until I realised that Canons Park would be a perfect fit for this group. Latimer Road was chosen arbitrarily but conversely, Notting Hill Gate was a conscious choice as it would mean there were a total of 6 Central line stations used, a subtle hint that there was something involving the Central on the wall. I'm slightly surprised that no-one pointed this out before reversal points got mentioned. Anyway, that's all I really had to say about this. I'm quite pleased with how this went and will definitely consider doing another one for next Christmas. It was interesting seeing some of the responses this got such as the "ex-GER station" link. That was not something I'd considered when putting the wall together but is actually a really good idea for a link. I may have to use that or something similar in a future wall. I'm going to sign this off by saying I hope you all had a great Christmas and to wish you a happy new year!
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Post by trt on Dec 31, 2022 0:22:16 GMT
Dang. I thought one of the links was the names contain words meaning bodies of water.
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Post by brigham on Dec 31, 2022 8:59:46 GMT
Dang. I thought one of the links was the names contain words meaning bodies of water. I've got Beck, Burn and Pool. Is the fourth one 'Spa'?
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Post by trt on Dec 31, 2022 23:52:07 GMT
Mer, but I hadn't spotted Spa. Nice one!
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 1, 2023 10:52:00 GMT
I guess this is what makes a good connecting wall, many groups but only one matching solution.
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Post by xplaistow on Jan 1, 2023 21:13:05 GMT
I guess this is what makes a good connecting wall, many groups but only one matching solution. In this case there is more than one full solution* but that's not actually that surprising, especially with a theme like TfL stations. If there's a lot of potential links then there's probably going to be multiple solutions. I calculated that there are 2,627,625(!) different ways of sorting 16 things into 4 groups of 4 so it's next to impossible to ensure that only one of those combinations makes sense. (*The other solution is something I'd completely overlooked. Using stapler's suggestion of ex-GER stations in place of the reversing points link and having White City take the place of Hackney Downs in the different name interchange link is an equally valid solution.)
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