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Post by Colin D on Feb 27, 2018 1:20:19 GMT
Question: (click for a larger version)
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 27, 2018 6:54:34 GMT
Plaistow for the Main?
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Post by Colin D on Feb 28, 2018 1:49:27 GMT
It’s not Plaistow. Try this version and I’ll give you the inset clue as well. Clue: Main photograph: (click for a larger version) Inset: (click for a larger version)
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paulsw2
My Train Runs For Those Who Wait Not Wait For Those That Run
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Post by paulsw2 on Feb 28, 2018 3:56:03 GMT
Is the main Wimbledon Park
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 28, 2018 12:11:36 GMT
Main photograph: Wimbledon Park - stairs from platforms [Chris M] (click for a larger version)
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Post by westville13 on Feb 28, 2018 22:02:12 GMT
I don't recognise the other location but the cannon is interesting. Massive damage. Riveted box section trail. Very light axle and wheels. The recuperator (if that is what it is) is very odd. Is it some sort of converted garrison artillery piece? It is clearly held to be of historic significance.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 28, 2018 22:53:09 GMT
Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that question. This isn't my photo and googling the information I have about the location hasn't helped unfortunately.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 1, 2018 11:07:29 GMT
The photographer has given me more information, and it is a 76mm "light field gun" produced from ca.1900 to ca.1930. It was disabled by a shell exploding in the barrel.
As for the historical significance, it participated in the shelling of the place it was photographed.
I'm not sure if that helps or not - this really isn't my subject!
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Post by westville13 on Mar 4, 2018 22:21:54 GMT
Chris M. Thank you - so I think a Russian gun and the internal explosion explains the enormous damage to the barrel. Are we looking at a Russian or eastern European location here?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 4, 2018 23:49:10 GMT
Yes, this is a Russian-made gun in a "Russian or eastern European location". You don't need to be much more specific than that on this occasion to get the points, but you do need to at least pick the country.
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Post by westville13 on Mar 9, 2018 22:52:40 GMT
Finland?
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Post by arun on Mar 9, 2018 23:07:07 GMT
How about St Petersburg, October 1917
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 9, 2018 23:56:08 GMT
It's not Finland, or St Petersburg, nor was the armed action in 1917 but it is in Russia and it was in the 1910s. We'll give the answer in 24 hours or so if nobody gets it between now and then.
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Post by arun on Mar 10, 2018 0:23:06 GMT
There was a lot of civil war type strife in Russia between 1917 and 1919 - including Royal Naval gunboat actions in the Black Sea - let alone all the various White Russians vs. Bolsheviks battles. The gun barrel looks as though it might have been "spiked" so as to prevent its use by the other side so perhaps more likely to have been one of the White Russian vs Bolshevik skirmishes of the 1919 era.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 10, 2018 7:22:09 GMT
There was a lot of civil war type strife in Russia between 1917 and 1919 - including Royal Naval gunboat actions in the Black Sea - let alone all the various White Russians vs. Bolsheviks battles. Do you mean "Royal"? The Czarist navy was surely "Imperial", and anyway would not have existed after the 1917 revolution.
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Post by arun on Mar 10, 2018 10:27:11 GMT
There was a lot of civil war type strife in Russia between 1917 and 1919 - including Royal Naval gunboat actions in the Black Sea - let alone all the various White Russians vs. Bolsheviks battles. Do you mean "Royal"? The Czarist navy was surely "Imperial", and anyway would not have existed after the 1917 revolution. No - I mean Royal Navy - as in the UK's Navy. At least one VC was won by British forces and other Western countries assisting the White Russians against the Bolshevik hordes. For a simple description of the post-1917 Russian Civil War try Wiki - from which the following paragraph is taken: "The Western Allies armed and supported opponents of the Bolsheviks. They were worried about (1) a possible Russo-German alliance, (2) the prospect of the Bolsheviks making good on their threats to default on Imperial Russia's massive foreign loans and (3) the possibility that the Communist revolutionary ideas would spread (a concern shared by many Central Powers). Hence, many of these countries expressed their support for the Whites, including the provision of troops and supplies. Winston Churchill declared that Bolshevism must be "strangled in its cradle".[14] The British and French had supported Russia during World War I on a massive scale with war materials. After the treaty, it looked like much of that material would fall into the hands of the Germans. Under this pretext began allied intervention in the Russian Civil War with the United Kingdom and France sending troops into Russian ports. There were violent clashes with troops loyal to the Bolsheviks."
Arun
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Post by arun on Mar 10, 2018 10:36:50 GMT
Just to confirm for you [Norbitonflyer] that it was the RN and not the defunct Czarist Navy, the following gives you some names that you might care to Google or perhaps even look up in Wiki - "Faced with these events, the British and French governments decided upon an Allied military intervention in Russia. They had three objectives:
prevent the German or Bolshevik capture of Allied material stockpiles in Arkhangelsk mount an attack helping the Czechoslovak Legions stranded on the Trans-Siberian Railway[not in citation given] resurrect the Eastern Front by defeating the Bolshevik army with help from the Czechoslovak Legions[not in citation given] and an expanded anti-Bolshevik force of local citizens and stop the spread of communism and the Bolshevik cause in Russia.
U.S. troops in Vladivostok, August 1918 Severely short of troops to spare, the British and French requested that President Wilson provide American soldiers for the campaign. In July 1918, against the advice of the United States Department of War, Wilson agreed to the limited participation of 5,000 United States Army troops in the campaign. This force, which became known as the "American North Russia Expeditionary Force"[14] (a.k.a. the Polar Bear Expedition) were sent to Arkhangelsk while another 8,000 soldiers, organised as the American Expeditionary Force Siberia,[15] were shipped to Vladivostok from the Philippines and from Camp Fremont in California. That same month, the Canadian government agreed to the British government's request to command and provide most of the soldiers for a combined British Empire force, which also included Australian and Indian troops. Some of this force was the Canadian Siberian Expeditionary Force; another part was the North Russia Intervention. A Royal Navy squadron was sent to the Baltic under Rear-Admiral Edwyn Alexander-Sinclair. This force consisted of modern C-class cruisers and V and W-class destroyers. In December 1918, Sinclair sailed into Estonian and Latvian ports, sending in troops and supplies, and promising to attack the Bolsheviks "as far as my guns can reach". In January 1919, he was succeeded in command by Rear-Admiral Walter Cowan."
From that time onwards, the latter-day Bolsheviks have understandably been less than well-disposed towards the West - a state of affairs which extends to the present day in the sense of Russia feeling that it might be surrounded by potential enemies.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 10, 2018 11:03:34 GMT
I stand corrected - I didn't know there had been so much Allied involvement in what was ostensibly a Civil War. All this was going on whilst World War 1 was still in progress of course, and the Allies wanted revolutionary Russia to stay on side. There was already one WW1 precedent for a country to change sides (or, rather, entered the war on the Allied side despite a formal alliance with the Central Powers).
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Post by arun on Mar 10, 2018 13:20:06 GMT
No probs - I was seriously impressed by the Wiki article on Rear-Admiral Walter Cowan - not only did he serve before and during WW1 but in WW2 at the age of 70+ he was working on operations with No:8 Middle East Commando where he was awarded a second DSO. No: 8 Cdo of course was where Messrs Stirling and Mayne were serving [in N Africa] when they decided to form what became the Special Air Service.
Arun
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Post by westville13 on Mar 11, 2018 12:19:12 GMT
These actions by British forces in Russia are I believe the reason why some UK War Memorials bear the dates 1914 - 1919 (rather than 1914 - 1918).
Is the gun preserved in one of the Baltic States possibly Estonia?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 11, 2018 12:30:25 GMT
No, the gun is in Russia, specifically Yaroslavl - Inset: Old cannon in the Spaso-Preobrazhensky monastery, Yaroslavl, Russia [ Dmitri] wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=57.621924&lon=39.890641&z=19&m=b(click for a larger version) Dmitri also sent the following by PM: Goolge translated from Russian, the caption of the image of the gun reads "76-mm gun arr. 1902, participated in the shelling of Yaroslavl. The gun was disabled by a shell exploding in the barrel channel"
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 11, 2018 13:30:00 GMT
These actions by British forces in Russia are I believe the reason why some UK War Memorials bear the dates 1914 - 1919 (rather than 1914 - 1918). Also, perhaps, because the war did not officially end until June 28th 1919, (the 5th anniversary of the assassination in Sarejevo which set it off) with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles. November 11th 1918 was "merely" a cease-fire or truce. (The Korean War was suspended since 1953, but has not officially ended!)
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