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Post by A60stock on Dec 15, 2017 14:29:54 GMT
Just noticed that the new franchise have decided to order a number of new trains to replace some of the existing trains in the London area and the West midlands region.
Is this not yet another crazy decision? Surely this means that the class 350, the class 172 and the class 323 are going to be displaced? Neither of these units are anywhere near their halfway lives (class 323 maybe, but even so 25 years is not alot), and where on earth are they going to go?
What is going to happen in 5 years time when there is a massive surplus of displaced stock?
I dont understand why there seems to be such a massive trend across franchises in ordering new stock, when in many cases, the existing stock is barely 10-15 years old?
Perhaps i am misinformed and someone will be able to give a perfectly clear reasoning as to what happening.
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Post by domh245 on Dec 15, 2017 16:42:39 GMT
The new stock will only be displacing the 350/2s (which are expensive to lease by most accounts), the class 323s (which are getting on a bit with outdated equipment, much like the 92TS), and their older diesel stock, classes 150, 153, and 170 (which are just old/older). In addition to the new build trains they are taking on the London Overground 172s, as well as the Transpennine 350s, and a few D-Trains as well.
You're right about the large amounts of displaced stock though, at least in terms of EMUs, it's becoming a national trend. The older EMUs (317s, 321s, 323s) are all pretty poor offerings compared to modern stock, so they'll all be destined for a one way trip to a scrap yard (or maybe turning into Flex units with regards to 323s). The more modern EMUs (350/2s, 360, 379s etc) are a bit more difficult, by all accounts they've got plenty of life left in them, but there seemingly isn't any interest in them. Any spare DMUs in the current climate are always going to have plenty of potential operators, sprinter units can always find themselves with Northern or East Midlands, joining other fleets (ie 150s at Northern, 150s, 153s, 156s at either), and turbostars will be very welcome at XC.
It does seem to be the case that the way to win a franchise at the moment is new fleets of trains and DOO, it's a combination of the way DfT are assessing bids, and the fact that Rolling Stock seems to be cheap at the moment for whatever reason.
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Post by rtt1928 on Dec 15, 2017 17:10:22 GMT
Would the necessity of complying with the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations have anything to do with the order for new trains?
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Post by johnb2 on Dec 15, 2017 17:22:44 GMT
I am sure that I read somewhere that the reason for new build for new franchises is that it is considerably cheaper to lease new build rather than to continue to lease existing stock. The reasons why this should be so were not made clear.
However my take on this is that existing stock of around 15/20/25 must be coming up for expensive overhaul/rebuild and must also be getting relatively expensive to maintain, which costs must reflect in the leasing/running costs. Build new, .... well .... should be cheaper to maintain for the first ten years or so. Being cynical it's also "LOOK! you'll be getting nice new trains, not those old scruffy 15/20/25 year old ones!" Get a good deal from the builders desperate for work, use their current standard proven designs, result the bonus for the builder as there are minimal design costs to recover. Less money talks!
The fact that there is still 20+ years left in the existing stock counts for nothing in todays throwaway society. Whether the new will be as comfortable & smooth as the older will be open to question. The new 377/7s that come past here are smooth running alright, but the seats(!) it's a numb rear end after half an hour!
One question though will the 'S' stock last as long as the 'A' stock achieved. Mind you I commuted during the early days of the 'A' stock and smooth/comfort was not a description I would have used!!
Just the take of a grumpy retired one on the situation!!
regards
John
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Post by domh245 on Dec 15, 2017 17:31:59 GMT
RVAR applies to light rail, for the mainline it's the PRM-TSI (Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability, but no I don't think there's any major reason for that to be a reason beyond a few cases (notably any class 142s and 153s) - programs exist for making existing stock compliant, and whilst it may be touch and go with getting them all done by 2020 in some cases (or completely missed in the case of the East Midlands HSTs) The real advantages to new stock is that in many cases it is simplifying fleets from several types into just one (and associated savings in maintenance, training, etc), replacing stock that is getting towards the end of it's life (for example the 317s, 455s, 507/8s etc will all be the best part of 40 years old when they retire, and lack several features that you would expect as standard nowadays - air con, plug sockets, wifi, etc), or it is simply cheap and a better deal to lease than existing stock. We're seeing a number of train building facilities pop up now, CAF are building a facility in Newport, Alstom have got a site in Widnes that's currently painting pendolinos but could build things if they get an order, Hitachi have Newton Aycliffe and Bombardier have Litchurch Lane, and then you also have Talgo who've said that they'd build a plant in the UK if they get orders for the UK (+Vivarail at Long Marston). That's a lot of capacity to fill, and one of the best ways to fill them is to sell your trains cheap |
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Post by croxleyn on Dec 16, 2017 16:16:45 GMT
According to the Watford Observer, a new train has been ordered for the St. Albans Abbey Flyer line. Wow. I bet the users would be overjoyed to have that, but not a reliable crew to drive it!
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 16, 2017 17:53:54 GMT
According to the Watford Observer, a new train has been ordered for the St. Albans Abbey Flyer line. Wow. I bet the users would be overjoyed to have that, but not a reliable crew to drive it! Probably the 'Titfield Thunderbolt!'  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 16, 2017 18:19:34 GMT
Well, as the new West Midlands franchisie are replacing almost their entire electric fleet it's hardly a surprise that the Abbey Line will have to be operated by one of them.
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